This is extremely biased. I want you to know I applaud what you're doing. Especially since you are a young film maker, I think this is great. But a Christian rock concert isn't "worldly" and there is no scriptural reason to say one must believe the Earth is "young" to be a Christian.

You need to re-define the problem. I'll comment more as I watch.

Alright here's my main issue. Your problem is many youth in the church are leaving church as they grow older. Your solution is to disband youth groups, integrate the church, and get parents to disciple their children.

Let's talk about the problem first off. How are you defining a non-Christians? From the documentary it seemed to me you were defining it as someone who enjoys rock concerts, believes the Earth is old, and believes in evolution.

If that is your definition you need to rewind and start over. If it's not, you need to re-edit because that is what it seemed like you were saying. All three of those topics are covered under Titus 3 as disputable matters. The one kid got it best when he said whether the Earth is young or old it doesn't change the fact Jesus died for him.

Your evidence as to why the youth group is destroying kid's chances at remaining in Christ is hear-say. You hint at the belief it's because our educational culture is a pagan institution (which was an extremely lose connection). The biggest answer you give is, "it's not biblical." Which, perhaps you're right. The youth group is not mentioned in the bible. Yet, it's hard to deem something unfruitful simply because it wasn't invented 2000 years ago. What would the bible say about Podcasts, or documentary videos?

As it is, the youth group was the place where many american's first met Jesus. It is the place where unbelievers are often first introduced to the church. I believe even one of your interviewees mentioned he loved the youth group and that it was the place where he met his wife.

It would seem the youth group is yielding fruit.

Your last point is perhaps the only point that has substantial backing - parents need to lead and disciple. It is also the only point where you really quoted scripture (for an entire documentary on reproving the church you lacked entirely too much scripture).

At the end of the day, i'm glad people are talking about this, and certainly your video has brought conversation out of me.

Hey James,

The whole premise, the whole reason, this documentary was made is to explore the reasons why young people aren't staying in the church. One of the first news headlines you see in the film is "More Teens Becoming Fake Christians" and the statics from Barna Research Institute in 2002 show around 2/3rds of young people leave the church.

In the beginning the president of Youth Specialties (which is a huge ministry) claims himself that the fun and games and flashiness which they thought would bring transformation really doesn't. Coming from the president of Youth Specialties says a lot.

It's clear there is a problem but what is causing this or rather what may be preventing them from staying and have long-lasting change?

Many many churches in America have some form of Sunday youth and children's gatherings that take place during the same gathering of adults in the main sanctuary of those same churches. You'll find that what is being taught to the adults differs from what is being taught to the youth which differs from what's being taught to the children.

We've convinced ourselves that youth need more "relevance" or they won't come into the church. They need something that relates to them because the church is for "old people." If we call ourselves Christians but claim that the word of God, the Gospel isn't relevant to our generation thus we must conceive a man-made way to bring youth into the church and try to entertain them at the same time then we've got two huge problems.

1. We deny that the Holy Spirit alone has the power to draw in the unbeliever, the fallen away and the broken.

2. We claim that the Gospel is irrelevant (as opposed to relevant) to this generation and that we need something that relates to us in order to hold our attention.

The way church was set up 2000 years ago was that all families of the church got together for the exposition and teaching of the Word of God. Back in beginning with the children of Israel the whole congregation including young people, children and infants were all read the same law.

That is unheard of today! "How dare you teach my child about all the laws in Deuteronomy! Don't you know there's graphic content!?" The cycle the church has gotten itself into is one that says "oh he's not old enough to hear that." or "she's not ready for that heavy of doctrine. She just needs friends."

Church has slowly become a social hangout where there's a 30 minute pep-talk sandwiched between two 30 minute live band sessions. 1 hour of music 30 minutes of pep talk. Now I've been to quite a few mega-churches in my day. My mom actually got saved in one of the largest here in Southern California. She started to pray and read her Bible and eventually left that church because they were starving her (and the congregation) of the Word. She needed substance not "her best life now." She wanted real change not gimmicks.

Thus the problem. The church has undisputedly lost it's substance, that substance being the Gospel of Christ and many times replaced it with man-conceived ways on how to get kids into the church.

I went to Rick Warrens church to shoot a few scenes for this documentary with my friends who made the film and I was honestly shocked by what I found. They had an entire room full of video game consoles and a two story building full of huge video game units and pool tables.

Since when did the church have a need for this kind of gimmickry? I understand the desire to remain relevant to a culture that is lost but when youth come in due to the lights and sounds and receive a shoddy prep-talk they eventually leave.

I would definitely spend more time writing to you but I do honestly feel the documentary speaks for itself.

Also about podcasts and videos, that's an entirely different subject and I know you know this James. Building a mountain out of nonexistent molehill won't go anywhere. What is being discussed is the tremendous problem facing the church. We segregate and compartmentalize different age groups which was not something ever done in the church up until less than 200 years ago and teach those age groups a message that isn't unified each other.

Keep in mind, having an organized youth group isn't even so much the issue. I think (and so do the LeClerc brothers) that youth getting together to read the word is great! What isn't so great is segregating families on Sunday when the Biblical model was set up for a reason, to teach the Gospel to the families, to hear the same word of truth be preached and to learn as a unified unit.

This is wonderful! You guys are great! Keep it up! :)

Ok, strictly technical review. I work with a film making team as well. Here goes:

Very nice angles, good interview lighting.

What I found distracting were the rather peculiar cuts during an interview: speaker - interviewer looking at him - speaker - interviewer doing nothing - speaker - interviewer nodding. If the interviewer isn't interacting much with the subject, do we really need to see him every 15 seconds?
Overall, for a documentary, I felt that the film maker was visually unnecessarily present in quite a lot of shots. Maybe it's because he seems very aware of the camera, trying to act as himself.

I felt the soundtrack a bit overdramatic at times, as well.
Slow-mo shots not really working for me, especially when the filmmaker is in the frame (again).

Other than that, very nice color grading, good sound quality. ;)
All in all, a very good topic, nicely covered. Good job guys!

Thoughts on Divided

First, I must make it clear that I was at one point in my ministry totally on board with the FIC movement. I only just recently have begun to experience what I feel is a shift to a more Biblically-balanced ecclesiology. Having been a children’s pastor in two mega-churches for a decade, I experienced first-hand the ineffectiveness of many age-specific programs and the tendency for parents to totally abdicate their roles as disciplers of their own children. It was those experiences that, at that time, put me fully on board with what FIC is trying to accomplish. I am afraid, however, that there are some serious blind-spots in the FIC movement. The very fact that most FIC people I interact with get very agitated when the blind-spots are brought up confirms my suspicions that FIC adherents and leaders have become dogmatic where Scripture is not dogmatic and have fallen into a fresh form of legalistic idolatry that is just as dangerous as the pragmatic, program-driven ministries that they so vehemently stand against. The document, A Biblical Confession for Uniting Church and Family, is a great example of the dogmatism of which I speak. If you do not agree with that document, you can deduce that you are a humanistic, darwinian, sell-out to the world’s ways.

Having been inside FIC for a while I saw other problems, many of which are brought out in this film. These include, but are not limited to, a tendency to judge those who do church differently, and a tendency to make the Bible say much more than it really does about age-specific ministry. I use the term “age-specific” intentionally, as I believe that the phrase “age-segregated” is an unfortunate choice as it carries a connotation of forcing separation upon families when in reality Biblically-faithful churches that practice age-specific ministry are not forcing or even promoting segregation in the home, but are instead giving parents focused ministries that are designed to supplement, not replace, what they are doing. Most churches that have said ministries do so while at the same time encouraging, equipping and empowering parents to carry out their roles in the home. It is the many churches that do practice age-focused ministry well that this “documentary” ignores. This is not to say that there is not a serious problem with the current youth group culture in America, or with many age-specific ministries that are end in and of themselves. It is unfortunate that the film gives no time to the many strong churches in our nation that are proclaiming the gospel, equipping parents, and still effectively use models of ministry that are age-specific. I find that Southern Seminary’s family-equipping model is a much more balanced call for the church to once again bring the family back together.

With all that said, I want to give my thoughts about the film in a simplified bullet format:

What I liked:

The videography was very well done. It was artistic and visually moving. The editing was superb. The producers are obviously talented, and I praise God for their talent.

There are some good interviews and some very good points from some very well-respected leaders. I really respect what Voddie had to say even when I don’t agree with him.

That’s it...

Now what I didn’t like:
It’s not a documentary, it’s a promo piece for a specific agenda. The young man didn’t set out on a true journey to “discover” anything. There was already a set destination for the film. The outcome was pre-determined by the film-makers. The film was produced by Scott Brown. He is producing it for a reason. That reason was not to do serious, scholarly research on how to best minister to families, but to promote FIC. The overall tone then of the film was disingenuous, and the “discoveries” were insincere. Those who do not buy into the FIC model will see right through the duplicity. Those who buy into FIC lock-stock-and-barrel will love it, I’m sure, with raucous applause.

There was no balance in the interviews. The producers didn’t give any opportunity for those who are leading Biblically-strong churches that still use age-specific ministry to speak on camera. The research was therefore shallow, one-sided, and already had a pre-determined destination. Even when youth leaders admitted that kids need to be reconnected with parents, the producers gave no screen time for them to explain how they see that happening in the age-specific setting.
There are some really good scholars, pastors and church leaders out there who have graciously brought some concerns to the table about FIC. Not a one of them was included in the “documentary.” Southern Seminary in Louisville has done a great job complimenting the strengths of the FIC while of exposing some of its faults. In the process they have promoted a more Biblically balanced approach called the “Family-Equipping Model.” Where were these voices. If the journey had not already been pre-set by Scott Brown then perhaps we could have seen some other views while on the journey, even if just in passing.

The statistics mentioned are true to a degree, but are incomplete. Yes, we’ve all heard the startling “80% of evangelical teens leave the church stat,” but newer studies that follow the same kids into adulthood after college finds that many of them return after a period of wandering. The statistic is more like %60, still startling, but not as headline worthy as the one FIC wants us to believe. That 80% stat also includes many liberal, and Biblically illiterate churches in it’s sampling. I would love to see the stats from strong, Biblically-conservative, gospel-driven churches that practice “youth” ministries or age-targeted ministries. For example, wonder how Bethlehem Baptist Church (Piper) comes out statistically, or Grace Community Church (MacArthur) or...you get my point.

As my fellow elder pointed out after watching the film, statistics mean nothing if the gospel is not preached. Should we be more concerned with churches that don’t rightly divide (no pun intended) the word instead of those who “divide” the family.

On that note, there are also some scary statistics coming out of the homeschool movement about children who abandon the faith. Should we abandon homeschooling? Or should we realize that as long as we focus on outward forms instead of inward formation, we will always see kids falling away.

Also, we must realize that a certain amount of kids will simply fall away no matter what we do. There is this little doctrine called “election,” and there is our Lord warning us that broad is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way that leads to life. The statistics just bear out Scriptural realities.

Although entertainment driven ministry, be it adult or youth oriented, is faulty and unbiblical, the producers seem to jump from that right conviction to some sort of need to attack “christian rock.” It seems to me we are jumping back into the muddied waters of style over substance to re-fight the battles our parents fought. There is such a thing as genuinely Christian rock, rap, reggae, country, etc...

This brings me to another point. Bad youth groups are the fruit of bad churches. The church is the issue here, not youth groups or children’s ministries. Many young people are under poor pastoral leadership in churches that teach a weak gospel or worse have abandoned the gospel all together. So, youth group aside, we should not be surprised that 80% +/- of those kids abandon the faith, a faith that wasn’t solidified in the first place. The problem is bad ecclesiology that ends up affecting adults, senior adults, youth, etc.

The producers make a huge leap to go from Plato to Robert Raikes. In that respect I found the research to be very shallow at best. There was no fresh research only rehash of FIC arguments you can find on the Vision Forum website, and no attempt to interact with any scholars who might have given fresh insight into the history of education.

Robert Raikes is made out to be a bad guy out to destroy the church and home. If you have read about Robert Raikes you will see that he was part of large gospel-driven, social movement sweeping England where the gospel was taking hold in every day life and was changing the way society did everything from care for orphans, to the issue of slavery, to the need for prison reform. That movement gave us the George Mullers and the William Wilberforces of the world. Although there might have been some negative outcomes of Mr. Raikes Sunday School movement, it was at it’s heart gospel-centered and right. All good movements and ideas can be taken and be misused later. The FIC movement is no exception.

The producers also label those who do not buy into the FIC model as being influenced by Darwinian thought. What a leap they are making to assume that such is the case. If we must dismiss all secular opinions and influences that have guided western society as we know it today then we will find ourselves living in a commune in Montana with no connection to the outside world. Of course Darwinian though was prevalent as our modern state-education system was established, but that doesn’t mean that by God’s common grace these men didn’t have some good and common sense solutions to problems. Do we reject medical advances because Darwinian thought contributed to them as well, or do we leave room for a sovereign God to work in sinful men a common grace that works for the betterment of His children.

The movie isn’t specific about what it defines as “carnal means to attract people.” Can a building be such a thing? How about a sign? How about a website? My church shows videos...is that carnal? Some churches use more rock-styled music? Carnal? Who defines carnal? Shouldn’t Scripture guide us here? How about Romans 14?

The FIC movement says it’s going about “saving” Chris’t Bride (the Church) from the influences of the world, but I’m afraid they might be casting stones at the Bride of Christ by undiscerning dogmatism that is promoted in the movement and subtly put forth in the film.

The film calls age-focused ministries “a neglecting of Christ’s commands?” How so? Such a blanket statement deserves much more explanation, but we get none.


Overall I found the film to be a broad-brush demonizing of youth ministry that was poorly researched and already had pre-determined outcome. The producers unfairly ascribed Biblical-unfaithfulness to churches that do not fall in line with FIC. The producers demonstrated FIC’s tendency to become dogmatic where Scripture is silent.

Love it Love it Love it! I came from being a youth pastor for 8 years.. thank you for making this movie!!!!!!

Nicely done. I'll agree with much and disagree on much. Took notes all throughout and have much to think about. I recently did a sermon on this very emphasis on parents being the true youth pastors and youth ministry only being an aid and support them. I would love to ask the FI Pastors in here one thing - When you were a teenager, did you tell your parents everything or did you ever seek direction from someone else? That is where YM comes in. Not to surrogate parent - but to support and help parents. Youth pastors also have a great role in educating parents on the culture their parents are growing up in. Most parents don't take time to study their students world.

When you look at scripture Deut 6:9 says for parents to teach all day long. In Joshua, the men built a monument after crossing Jordan to be a teaching tool for kids. By Judges, the next gen "did not know the Lord." The Hebrew phrase here means "it did not concern them." It doesn't mean dads didn't do their job. The kids had not crossed the Jordan or seen the pillar of fire. They had no faith experiences of their own. THAT is key here.

According to Washer (who I do respect much of), since YM is unbiblical and wordly, my dad was illegitametly saved through YFC (since he was the only Christian in his home), was brought up sinfully by CEF, and went on to serve as a missionary in Brazil for 13 years and train hundreds of other missionaries - all a result of sinful youth ministry. Shocking how God works through man's methods.

Just had another thought - Documentaries are not a biblical form of preaching or prophesying. Would we deem it unbiblical and sinful and cast this documentary out? Or is this using a cultural trend to reach people apart from the biblical position of pastor? I'm just following the logic here (also ditch Christian school, home school and begin taking your kids to work to train them in their job).

Beautiful. Beautiful truth, beautiful picture. God bless you guys.

God bless you and your ministry. I see this video is already stirring people up, all I can say is this is something we should think about. I understand culture changes but God remains the same. The closest we can get to the Bible, the closest we'll get to God and understanding His purpose.

God's Blessings.

I'm pretty bummed that NCIFC endorses this movie. I am all for family integrated Churches. I see massive problems in the youth group movement. However to argue your point with conspiracy theory genetic fallacies is a tragedy.

Also, the point about rock music being worldly and ultimately portrayed as people who don't really follow Jesus is absolutely absurd. I especially hate that there are pastors who I love that are in this movie and will ultimately be associated with the beliefs of the film-makers. Paul Washer spoke at a Christian rap festival and commended their efforts. Then here he is in this movie being sided up with someone who believes such music is worldly. Terrible.

Great movie! Christians need to address these issues. So what about the seventh day? The Bible says it's the Sabbath. No sign of any change in Scripture. Do we believe the Bible or tradition? Surely keeping the first day of the week is the ultimate in offering our works in place of obedience to God's clear command?

This movie is an inspiration to churches, teens, and families. I had an understanding of the current "youth culture" before I watched this film, but "Divided" really showed me how deep the problem is.

The amazing part is how many people watch this movie and then say things like "where do they get off saying you have to believe in a young earth" or "that is totally wrong". The question these people must ask themselves is why is this movie wrong, Biblically? If they cannot prove to themselves, Biblically, that what "Divided" says is wrong, then they need to examine what they believe.

I've made the subtitles for Divided in Hungarian... If the producers are interested to include it in the DVD, it's free. Just contact me :)