great critique and very well articulated.

I watched it on FB, and am passing it around, so I don't know if your stat counter will access that.

Thank you Troy for wording some things I have been reflecting upon lately.

Especially since I experienced the spiral energetically through the Uzazu practices (online.uzazu.com) developed by Dylan Newcomb (also a Center for Human Emergence affiliate), my sense of the stages is that it is a much less linear process, and that the integral movement has been too left-brained about it all; compartmentalizing instead of honoring the fractal nature of it. Where integral is, well, yellow, Uzazu seems much more turqoise: simplifying to the level of experience - beyond complexity, and actionable.

Also very important to note that the economic system indeed is a most crucial and factor in global renewal; its complete reformation that is. This is too often overlooked in integral circles, to mine and others' frustration.

I do think that for economic reformation to happen, decision-making practices need to be introduced into the occupy-swarm worldwide that transcend and include its practice of the "general assemblies".

Also check out here on vimeo: "a crisis of decisionmaking" , addressing things more in that direction.

good to see that this is getting a lot of views.

Thank you so much for putting in the work to create this presentation. I'm half way thru and have found it very stimulating - I would love to get into a conversation about it with you. Obviouslyt on-line would be the easiest but in person would be even better...

Are you currently discussing it anywhere on a forum or somesuch?

Eric G.
donkeyhoty@mac.com

I just started a discussion thread about this film on the linked-in Spiral Dynamics group, if anyone has any thoughts.

linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=148906&type=member&item=77930092&qid=49a52bfd-c267-46cd-b1c9-6f065332f527&goback=%2Egde_148906_member_77930092%2Egmp_148906%2Egde_148906_member_77930092%2Egmp_148906


Thanks for the comments.

Troy

Awesome! I'll come visit as soon as my "Membership" is "approved".

Troy, well done. Its feels great to have found an ally who can articulate the frustrations I have found with integral and SEE the radical change that needs to happen. I would be exited to be in conversation with you around our upcoming film RENAISSANCE 2.0, wich is an attempt to translate what is in your video into street lnaguage and illistation. This will also provide a "market" for integral web technologies to seed in the collective minds, and replace the existing techno economic base culture. Please see integralfilms.net Many thanks Alex Krenz

What do I have to do to get my "membership" in the SD Group approved so I can join this conversation?

Here is my response to Troy Wiley as to "why" I edited his video to a shorter version...

LETTER TO TROY WILEY

Troy, thank you VERY much for your wonderful presentation of "Integral Zeitgeist." I hope that you do not mind that I edited your video for a particular type of audience and it is my hope that you would permit this version of your video to remain publicly available. Perhaps you would like to upload this "summary" version to your YouTube account since it is only 15 minutes long.

As you will notice in the description of the video I have included a link to the full one-hour original version of your video on Vimeo.

Perhaps think about this version of your video as a summary of the positive points that you made that will peak peoples' interest in watching your full in-depth explanation?

* youtu.be/ly4mPZaaWAE

The Facebook 20-minute version includes the part about the Resource-based Economy (RBE)...

* on.fb.me/uNe6Wh

I explain "why" I edited your video in my next couple of messages...

I have Aspergers Syndrome so some aspects of information and/or logic are glaringly obvious to me almost in a synesthesia or LSD-like sort of way. For example, as you may be aware, the subconscious mind does not remember facts presented in the negative form of the concept but rather only remembers the concept "as if" it were made in the positive. If someone says to you "don't do something" then your subconscious mind will only hear "do something."

So, to some people with Aspergers your negative statements, while offering some background and perspective, "appear to be" glaringly wrong or distracting from the actual Integral informational part of your presentation. In Non-Violent Communication (NVC) terms the negative statements are like offering an "opinion" as if it were a fact as opposed to an inquiry and therefore "appearing" to be argumentative to someone with Aspergers who can not help but pay attention to such subtle issues.

The concept of sarcasm has a similar effect. This is why sarcasm, or the statement of a lie as if it were the truth as a means of attempting to be humorous, as seen on comedy shows such as "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," "The Colbert Report," "Real Time with Bill Maher," etc. are so dangerous to the collective human consciousness. Sarcasm is a form of mind-control or a way of programming people with non-Integral information (lies). If such a "disease" or psychosis becomes institutionalized within the Green Meme, without Green having the capacity to heal much less recognize this aspect of itself, then it is as if Green becomes a type of mental patient for people who are legitimately on the 2nd Tier constantly needing to be "coddled."

So, rather than try to mix or blend 2nd Tier with 1st Tier as in your Turquoise/Green Lower Quadrant example perhaps you might consider reframing your new paradigm so that there is a "middle ground" BETWEEN 1st and 2nd Tier such that 2nd Tier as we know it today becomes a 3rd Tier? Otherwise I sense confusion on the 1st Tier because "Integral" is a definitive aspect of the current 2nd Tier. Perhaps you might consider a kind of "Advanced Green" concept for leaders who actually demonstrate "Integral Moments" but can't seem to escape the dysfunctional (or less insightful) aspects of 1st Tier?

Or, perhaps 2nd Tier is actually a duplication of 1st Tier except WITHOUT the dysfunctional aspects of 1st Tier? In this sense, 2nd Tier would delineate the "positive" aspects of 1st Tier that people appreciate about Green without the tendency of Green to do things simply because other people are doing them unconsciously or insanely?

Another issue to keep in mind is that the reason that the 1st Tier is the 1st Tier has to do with the arbitrary reality that was created for humanity by an ancient religious/philosophical cult who considered themselves to be gods or masters of the so-called human race that they "created" or programmed with a simplified easy-to-grasp method of contextualizing "the world" (reality) that Troy refers to as "The Human Construct" or a constructed reality versus actual reality or physics. This particular artificial contextualization was based on dysfunctions like greed, ego, anger, hate, sadness, frustration, envy, etc. as if they were legitimate excuses for dysfunctional behavior and had absolutely nothing to do with actual reality which is physics based.

The dysfunctional aspects of 1st Tier are like a "curse" that the "cult" placed upon the entire human race to the extent that EVERYONE thinks that dysfunctional human qualities are "normal." This is why I say that the key to enlightenment is the elimination of dysfunctional qualities with the equation,
X -> 0 or "As X (dysfunction) approaches zero."

This is the main reason why getting out of 1st Tier is so difficult, you need to transcend and NOT include the dysfunctional aspects of the 1st Tier programming. This is why attempting to "blend" 1st and 2nd Tier may not be such a good idea if it were even possible. Integrality precludes including dysfunction. Empathy for the challenges that most people have with the dysfunctional aspects is a different story. Empathy is necessary for connecting with the 1st Tier. But, empathizing without holding your own Integral center causes you to justify the dysfunctions for yourself like voluntarily accepting a virus into your computer system which is or leads to insanity.

I see this as "looking reality in the face, to face everything and avoid nothing," to face actual life conditions as Troy pointed out in his video.

Troy, I tried to insure that your most cogent points remained in this version of the video and I will gladly re-edit the video if you think that I missed any key building blocks that you think are essential.

Thank you for your consideration of my proposal for an "Asperger" version of your Integral Zeitgeist video.

- pi -

The lack of connectivity is getting in the way here. Would someone please either bring this conversation out into a more user-friendly space or open the conversation up to the world where it is?

Thanks Troy. I do very much value that your first presentation is potentially (if they hear it :) a great introduction for the integral community to what the rest of the world has been up to (in terms of how very integral a lot of it is). Wonderfully put, you have a lot of my own concerns and describe them beautifully.

I love how you clearly state just how individualistic (I would say deeply narcissistic, myself) the integral movement is and at the same time I am deeply concerned about the green-turquoise thing.

Which yes, I am seeing too, but am actually quite concerned about: because I don't think it is turquoise.

I don't see any turquoise because I see far more pseudo-spirituality, over-simplification & 'politeness' - than actual real connection or integration. And especially I see very little moral development. Which is quite to be expected for a people raised by this violent system, am certainly not putting anyone down: I do totally appreciate we're all just wherever we are & need to be. Just saying what I see.

I don't believe that turquoise you can get to by wishful thinking or by imitation. Very much not, and we know what happens when levels aren't fully integrated (if, indeed, the theory is sound about what those levels are, and it does make sense to me so far)

So 'skipping yellow' (a deep & precise understanding of the mechanics of systems, in particular our own socio-cultural systems, eg. how oppressions operate & perpetuate - often by changing form: why revolutions often re-balance into equally oppressive systems) is quite dangerous in my opinion. I hear much basic ignorance of planetary systems in most of the talk of 'abundance' & 'resource-based-economy', in particular with the idea of 'doing away with money'.

Your keen appeal for the simplicity beyond complexity is very understandable but also worrying: this quality is something that quite spontaneously arises in yellow (& frankly I don't even think most of the integral movement is anywhere near yellow, as your presentation brilliantly points out).

But that 'simple' (elegant) & spontaneous understanding is NOT something you can manufacture or package ready-simplified for people. It's like you can't fully describe a colour, or love - you just have to see it or feel it for yourself. It's experiential. But you CAN remove impediments, or tweak the environment & the basic understandings for someone to get there (faster & for themselves).

However there is definitely a market for the quick fix in our society (big anxious requests for "simple" are everywhere, of course!) so there is an endless stream of "simplistic" that tries to meet that demand. & those attempts at "quickly filling demand", especially now as we (quite undestandably) all feel some urgency in these matters) are actually counter-evolutionary.

The "money is the problem so let's just get rid of money" is one of those monstrously simplistic offers. It appeals to green like anything, and it's - in my opinion & experience - Very very dangerous.

This is the result: the Zeitgeist Movement (ZM) essentially proposes that a massive computer regulates the flow of resources in order to ensure harmony in a new world system.

& surely you don't need to be a systems genius to guess who this would most appeal to, right? From wikipedia: "The core idea advocated by TZM is the replacement of current civilization with a money-free and cybernated "resource-based economy".
This centralized cybernetic system is essential to that picture, if we are to 'get rid of money' as they so seductively propose.

YET, a healthy re-distribution of resources is exactly what a well designed money system would do, only in a non-centralized way, ie. much more likely to be controlled in a truly democratic way. And the healthy money system is precisely what the Transition Movement (TM) is proposing, and already working on.

The reason this is not as popular at the ZM proposal, is only that the TM design requires a higher level understanding of sustainability systems science (Integral Permaculture Design) ... and we are addicted to quick fixes.

There are other concerns I have with your conclusions, but hope to get to them later, if you are interested.

My "request to join is still pending" in the SD Group on LinkedIn. The sensitive window of opportunity of being a part of the formation and zeitgeist of this conversation is over. The first hours and days are critical. Vimeo is not a sufficient platform to hold a conversation of this depth.

Good luck in your efforts.

hi Jennifer :)

There's nothing on the linked-in discussion but there is one on Integral Life -

integrallife.com/member/trwiley/blog/integral-zeitgeist

Nice to see you here Jennifer and hope you are well! :)

THANK YOU Troy!!! Alas, a combination of the integral movement with and the zeitgeist movement! I have another critique example (like the Planet Inc. CEO) in mind to share... i will post it here soon...