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38. Introducing the Panasonic HPX300
9 months ago
Ned Johnston from Panasonic joins the round table with Steve Weiss, Jens Bogehegn and John Terendy to discuss the HPX300, the hot new Panasonic ENG 1080p camera. This is the definitive video where you can see a side by side test between the Sony EX3 and this new Panasonic HPX300, both shooting the same scene. In typical Zacuto style, here is a discussion about the pros and cons of this new camera to determine if it's right for you. Watch as Steve, Ned, Jens and John answer these questions; What is AVC intra codec? Who is this camera for? Can I use it for digital cinematography? Can I get mount all of my accessory gear to it including a DOF adapter? And much more!? See high res images of the HPX300: zacutoimages.com/p876432567/h3776fc01#h3776fc01
  • Josh Pabst 9 months ago
    well I'm turned on
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  • Stephen Lewis plus 9 months ago
    AWESOME looking camera! Question: does it overcrank to 60fps?
  • Sure it does.
  • Philip Bloom plus 9 months ago
    only in "USA" mode 60hz. Not in 50pn or 25pn

    the ex1/3 lets you overcrank to 60fps no matter what hz you are in.
  • NICHOLAS MICROS 6 months ago
    Can the HPX300 or 500 overcrank in 1080p or only in 720p like the HVX200.
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  • Bruce Tritton 9 months ago
    I think i'm in love.
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  • Nice form factor, but I still don't understand why people want 1/3" chips. It's all about the large image sensor.
  • Of course we want larger chips but can't really do it at $8500 and have a production grade shoulder mount camera for that price. The larger chip version of this camera is the HPX500, that you can get for around 10.5K without glass. If you plan on using a DOF adapter then that is the camera to go with and be done at around 20k with everything including 3 Zeiss ZF lenses. See: vimeo.com/3093799
  • True. But at that price point ($20k), you're getting into RED camera territory, which seems to be much more apt for digital cinematography. If you're looking for an ENG camera, this HPX300 has a dynamite feature set.
  • Sorry, but 20K is not RED territory and really never will be when you add up all of the parts and accessories. But more important RED is first and foremost a filmmaking camera, not exactly easy to use for portable use or with a small crew. It's not really a valid argument to say if you can afford a RED it's the camera for you. Like I've said in previous videos, pick the camera with the form factor, specs, price, type of use, speed of use, etc. that's right for the type of work you do. I like a RED if I'm shooting spots or a feature with a large crew and someone who knows how to edit it. But I like a camera like this to shoot a highend wedding, indie film, short, corporate video, news, etc. This camera really competes more with an EX3 then a RED. I love the ability to be able to use it as a run'n'gun shooter and then putting on a DOF adapter and have it become a filmmaking camera. Remember, there's an ass for every saddle.
  • John Fitzpatrick 9 months ago
    Ive yet to use a red so i cant say much about it. The HPX300 looks really cool and i do like that full "F-Stop" control which definitely adds on to the cinema feel and overall production. The price is a plus because it looks like a full packaged camera that one can achieve great footage out of for 10K ( without other accessories obviously).

    The Red camera also looks like a great piece of equipment but can get Very Very Pricey.
    For the money one may spend on a RED camera I would personally just use to rent a film camera (but thats just because i prefer film over digital when it comes to bigger budget :).

    Anyways Great Video once again ZACUTO you guys are great!.

    And Many KUDOS to panasonic and their new Camera!
  • Yes, it's a nice and complete package. (Though to add the follow-focus, matte box, DOF adapter and all that you see in this video, you may spend another full $10k -- look at the prices.)

    RED allows something that nobody else does: the ability to digitally develop your footage. It's a bit like shooting in RAW over JPEG-- you'll never go back once you know what it can do for you. Unless you're developing and grading your own 16mm film, you're never going to get anywhere near the control over the picture that you'll have with the Redcode RAW, and the cost is actually very low compared to professional processing, color grading, etc...: you can do it all right there in Final Cut Pro on your Macbook.
  • John Fitzpatrick 9 months ago
    Very Well said Garrett. I never thought of it like comparing RAW to JPEG , Very good Analogy for me to think about! Yes I did not even think about the full use of Post Production with the RED, huge advantage i must say. I love using and look of film to death but i also love the new digital technology.

    Thanks for your info!
  • Once again, I make my decisions on what to shoot with on the type of shoot it is. I've used a RED, but for you loyalists who live and die by RED, it's just not the camera for every job. You don't have defend the RED when every new camera comes out. RED is a great camera for certain types of jobs. To do it properly, it's not cheap either like some portray. And to think that when you hit a certain price point you have to go RED is just not wise. You go RED when it's the right camera for the right type of job. I think even Jim would agree with me on that.

    This video for example. I use 5 HVX200's one with a DOF adapter. I want to shoot fast, import fast and bring this video to market fast. I don't need 4K, 2K or even 1K. I don't need to be converting RED files and waiting for that. The HVX200 is the right and correct camera for the job. The picture quality is great and the cost of 5 HVX200's makes this relatively inexpensive to shoot. Here is a perfect example of picking the right camera for the job.
  • True, true. You're totally right about a job-based camera selection, Steve.

    I just don't see a 1/3" sensor-based camera as a strong digital cinema solution, just because you've got a DOF adapter on the end of it. But you're also right when you note that not all budgets and crews call for RED cameras.
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  • paramon plus 9 months ago
    Thanks for the comparison shots,
    but I'll keep my 1/2" "palm camera" :)
  • Joseph Stunzi, IENCE 9 months ago
    nothing beats the ergonomics of an EX-1!
    The power of the AVC-Intra codec is one of the things that mights attract users still concerned about sensor size to this camera as well. It has a much more professional feel I'm sure... I guess it depends on your shooting style, content you shoot, among other things.
  • Joseph Stunzi, IENCE 9 months ago
    I was being sarcastic about the Ex's ergonomics
  • paramon plus 9 months ago
    I got that part,
    and I hate the form factor of EXs,
    but when they release 2/3", even if it's gona look like toilet seat, I still gona buy it :)
  • Philip Bloom plus 9 months ago
    if it looked like a toilet seat then there is no excuse if your footage looks like sh**!
  • paramon plus 9 months ago
    that's not nice bloom
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  • Scott Gribble plus 9 months ago
    it's about time! im tired of my pee wee hpx170
    thanks for the video
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  • Ian Lucero plus 9 months ago
    Good job guys. As always informative and great to hear your thoughts on new cameras. Good comparison video.

    I agree that it is amazing what Panasonic is doing to bring features that have been around forever on the ENG cams to the smaller "palm cams". Features like a waveform, vectorscope, histogram, focus assists are all very useful in my everyday shooting, especially in HD.
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  • Scott Gribble plus 9 months ago
    I can finally use my anton bauer batteries again. real view finder, i can use my encore. life is good. my 170 is my b and my 200 is my c camera. YES!
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  • Halo TV 9 months ago
    Looking forward to purchasing this camera and producing some shows with it. You can do a lot with this camera
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  • Very cool...
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  • zack mctee plus 9 months ago
    insane
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  • Robin Thacker plus 9 months ago
    More toys!
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  • Ed David 9 months ago
    very nice review and video! Can't wait to see Sony's response, if it comes. Sony does some times take their time.

    I however find the ex1 with zacuto baseplate a very nice and balanced camera even for handheld. Not perfect, but I can live with it. Anyway I really love the peaking on the ex1, the manual white balance tuning and the great image controls plus the cine gammas Sony has developed something really great. In terms of AVC Intra vs. XDCAM EX codec - I'm curious to see on normal every day shoots what a different this would make in image quality at the end of the day. However I do know a 1/2' chip for ENG work looks more like a 2/3' chip than a 1/3' chip so I don't quite know if this camera in terms of image quality at the end of the day make production companies happy when they want that "Varicam look" at a cheaper price. Anyway can't wait to see a shoot out of the EX3 and HPX300.
  • paramon plus 9 months ago
    I'd say HPX300 is a late response to the Sony S270
  • Philip Bloom plus 9 months ago
    it's way better than the s270!
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  • Anthony Ojo jr 9 months ago
    Um, what about a? There is only so steady you can keep a camera that is on your shoulder, especially at certain speeds. It seems this is more for broadcast? Unfortunately from a filmmaking stand point i do not see the form factor benefits of this over a smaller camera with a steadicam or dolly. Unless the quality is spectacular, and i noticed the 2/3" chip.
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  • mark nicholson 9 months ago
    great job.... hmmm now HM700 or HPX300...
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  • elisey plus 9 months ago
    so huge, what about smaller cam?
  • julien Marion 8 months ago
    smaller cam dont give you all the feature that this type of cam will, by exemple the genlock, TC/in, TC/out, advanced gama control and even more,

    smaller cam .... less feature
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  • Henrik Erichsen 9 months ago
    Great test, but I don't understand why you preview the picture on LCD screens, didn't you have any real monitors ?
  • Scott Lynch plus 8 months ago
    Those LCD panels you see are Panasonic LH-1700's, which are actually really nice broadcast quality panels. Check them out, you would be surprised at the quality. :)
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  • RedHavoc Archive 9 months ago
    Very nice, and great top end broadcast specs... but JVC kinda already doing this and when Red Scarlet arrives it will be 2/3 at lower cost...
    ...and you guys failed to mention the massive advantage of hand-held cameras: portability and flexibility. You need things like HVX-200 if you are running around, filming stunts getting immersed in crowds... especially on a lower budget.
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  • Jeb Johenning 9 months ago
    Now the big question, keep or sell my HPX-500 for this camera? Lots of cools features in smaller lighter package!
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  • David M. Wexler 9 months ago
    First, this is just another tool, another paint brush. Let’s face it you can tell a good story with “my first Sony” in the right hands. To that in the right hands, I’m sure this camera makes pretty pictures.
    I think the HPX-500 had some issues, the sensor was based on the HVX200 it was only 960X720, but 2/3”. The canon lens it came with was heinous. Major color fringing chromatic aberrations even though it was said to have CAC. I rented it for a music video and ended up with a 18X HD Fujinon ENG lens. I am intersted to hear about the Fuji glass this camera comes with. The 500 camera was CCD the HPX-300 is CMOS. To me I would test, test, TEST this camera to make sure if you are shooting action there is not the “jelly effect” / rolling shutter/ skew. Also is this camera 3 cmos sensors which add up to a 2.2 megapixel imager or each is 2.2? I suspect the latter.
    Is the HPX-300 really full raster 1920X1080 or is it 1440X1080. The new Varicam P2 2700 is only 1440X1080 and the body alone is 40K.
    Please someone rent this thing and put it to the test, but I love the price point and I love the fact we have gone back to more traditional designs for theses entry pro-level cameras

    Finally, anyone who thinks that the can get a cinema full-blown RED package for 20K is sadly mistaken. It approaches 100K with used older pl mount glass and thats a conservative estimate. It’s all about the glass.
  • Amen to that brother David.
    I'm getting too many people that think you can put a real RED or SCARLET kit together for 20K and they are dreaming. Also what bugs me is that they think it is a panacea for all ills. I dig the RED and have used it and liked it but it's not for all jobs, nor is the HPX300 or any camera for that matter. So many of my friends that are shooters use a XL-H1/EX3/HVX200 plus a HPX500/XDCAM 350 plus a RED or film camera. They use the right camera for the right job
  • julien Marion 8 months ago
    Amen

    I used the XDCAM 350, it was the perfect cam for my project.

    The red just had been useless since we didnt had the money and the post-production equipements to deal whit it.
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  • William Rich 9 months ago
    I can really relate to Steve's comments about the body and format of this camera. .
    As an professional ENG shooter that is interested in jumping into the independent film world.. having to adjust to a palmcorder with many of the basic manual controls having to be operated from a menu rather than a mechanical control or dial is just unfamiliar for me.. it really takes practice to become proficient and definitely slows you down in run and gun situations..
    This HVX300 seems like it has all the manual features and controls of a more costly camera that us ENG types are used to.. I was considering a JVC GY series camera for that very reason.. to have the camera sitting on my shoulder.. and being able to adjust focus/zoom/iris on a manual lens is very attractive to me.
    I think the image compared nicely with the EX3.. I would really like to see some real world video from this camera.. outdoors in an uncontrolled enviroment.. with camera movement to see how the CMOS sensors react and how they handle varying light conditions..

    My only issue with this camera so far is its choice of using P2 media.

    Once again.. thanks so much for putting this video out there Steve! it really allows us to see what's new out there. This gives us a really nice preview of what looks to be a great camera for the $$!
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  • Philip Bloom plus 9 months ago
    I really like the camera. I reviewed it here: vimeo.com/3376421

    It has flaws, but so does every camera I have used...but at this price point it will be a great addition to my arsenal.
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  • D&A Films 8 months ago
    nice, very nice!
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  • Manuel Aragon 8 months ago
    About time!, Like it alot
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  • Billy Barber 8 months ago
    Why in the world would I buy this when Panasonic is coming out with the GH1 in a couple months with a sensor close to the size of a Red One? Ergonomics? You could argue the advantage of shooting with what looks (and weighs) like a stills camera far outweighs the bells and whistles of this soon to be dinosaur. At a fraction of the price. Or am I missing something?
  • What you are missing is use. The HPX300 is a shoulder mount camera meant for someone who needs to be able to shoot all day, comfortably on your shoulder. The GH1 has to have a ton of rigging equipment added to it to make it handholdable, or to modify it to be a filmmaking camera. Good audio will be difficult if not impossible. Multi-camera sync will be diffuicult if not impossible. Each camera is designed for a purpose. The GH1 was designed for photo taking, it's shape and size are made for that. I've tried using DSLRs for shooting video and a lot of compromizes have to be made. Having the shallow DOF is cool but we are still not quite there in the DSLR world for my useses. It will happen one day. Steve
  • Billy Barber 8 months ago
    How about using Bob Dylan's harmonica holder? Seriously though folks seems as though it's going to happen sooner rather than later and if you guys make a small and lightweight solution to this count me in. I already have your ex1/letus rig which is great. But the thought of filming people with their guard down with that kind of quality as the GH1 is pretty cool. There are some great time code based personal audio recorders (also really small) which would take care of audio. It's just the decision to put this small chip in such a big camera (HPX 300) seems goofy.
    Aside from that I love your camera tests and round table discussions. Thanks a lot. And thanks for responding. (I didn't really think anyone was going to read what I said to be honest)
  • Scott Lynch plus 8 months ago
    Another thing to consider is the codec that the HPX300 gives you. With the GH1 it can only record in AVCHD which will be fine for people who don't require broadcast quality output.

    But a great feature that Panasonic added to the HPX300 is the use of AVC-Intra which gives a lot of ability to grade in post and is a broadcast grade recording format.

    It depends on the final delivery format of your videos, and for the price the 300 is pretty nice.
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  • julien Marion 8 months ago
    I never used P2 media,

    Im kinda scared by the cost of the p2 card right now. Compared the the sony professional blu-ray ( 25-30 $ ) for 1 hour of 35 MBs of 1920/1080 hd footage.

    I think i will still go whit the XDCAM series.
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  • bunkofurko 8 months ago
    We are taking bets around here whether it will be AVID or RED that bites the dust first. Stay tuned. However, personally I cannot take any camera mfr seriosuly that toutes 28K resolution sensors. Now, that is just too foolishly funny... ;~))

    I think they huy who used to make sunglasses and is not trying to make RED a "competitor" of Arri, Aaton, JVC, Panasonic, and Sony will soon find a new folly for himself...

    The RED's production/post prods flow is slow and rusty. The Red codec is a nightmare. Unless you want to bog down in the quagmire of Red post, you'd be much better off considering the Silicon Imaging SI-2K. The results of using that one is very much film-like. Whereas everything I have ever seen shot with the Red One (including their own product demos using the Sony SXRD-R110 4K resolution projector) looked like material shot with a video camera. And not a video camera.

    Now, let's go back to reality. Yeah, too bad the full-size Panny 300 comes only with the midget sensor, but hey, that is why Panny has the VariCam 3700. That is the best deal going around these days, and in a recent American Society of Cinematographers shoot-out of D-film cameras, it handily beat both the geneis and the Red. On the other hand, the 2700 VariCam only has a 1MP sensor, so I would stay the heck away from that one! It is crazy, the HPX300 has a 2.2MP sensor, and the VariCam 2700 by Panny only has a 1MP sensor!!! Of course, that one came out well before the 300 did.
  • I still think we are getting a bit hung up with numbers. I've used all of these cameras and all can look good and all can look bad. It's really how you master the camera you have.

    But I will say that the HPX300 does not look nearly as good as a P2 Varicam even know it's sensor may be bigger. That's where these numbers can screw you up. You have to take so much into account, like color space, sensor size, through put and it's all way out of my league. That's why I give it the Steve Weiss test of side to side comparison. But as usual I state that my DP can make any one of these cameras look great. It's all about skill, lighting & experience. Those are the numbers that count!
    Steve
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  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    Its almost getting annoying when everyone goes straight to the RED when talking about cameras. It would be interesting to see how many people, given a large budget, would go for anything other than RED.

    I agree with everyone who mentions getting the right form factor and workflow for the task in hand. I shoot 6 days a week on and in the water - i use a XH-A1 as i can be away in the water all day on a boat and only worry about tapes. 90% of people i come across have a first question of 'what camera do you use' - its never 'how do you use your camera'.
  • You're preaching to the choir. No camera is right for every job. That's why there is a thriving rental market. I checked out your website, real nice by the way. But for your use a RED makes no sense. What you have an XH-A1 makes sense. For your uses, the RED is too heavy, too expensive, doesn't handheld well, you don't need 4K, 2K or even 1K for your use. You don't want to screw around with any kind of tapeless. For you job, the RED would be an anchor. But for many jobs it's the right camera.

    PEOPLE: STOP EQUATING 50-100k CAMERA BUDGET AND THINKING RED IS THE ONLY WAY IN THAT BUDGET. I've noticed that a lot people on the web are starting joing camps, almost like religions, then they start trying to convert everyone to there equipment camp. It's an interesting life study (why can't one be comfortable in his own gear and comfortable with others owning different gear) I'm supposed to say everyone should buy Zacuto, but I realize it's not for everyone, every camera or every budget. That's cool and I've made my peace with it. I guess man is not comfortable with that. It's ok if you own one camera and others own another, it's not a slam to you or the manufactuer, to your desicison making process or intellegence. It's just a different need for a different use.

    Please start picking cameras based on the exact use you are doing. Weight, size, shoulder mountable, ability to carry it all day if needed, features you want, form factor you like, budget, type of shooting you are doing and where you are going to be doing it: these are the criteria I'd like to see you using to make your equipment purchases.
    Steve
  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    Couldn't agree more with the use of the RED for what i do. Plus my turn around on videos tends to be 72hrs - and trying to make my iMac deal with the RED workflow would probably double that time.

    It is funny how people pair up cameras though. When they see a XH-A1, you get the question "why didn't you get a HVX" - and there are countless A1 vs HVX forum threds with people quoting lines from the spec sheet.

    Oh, glad you like the site....
  • I know, I like XH-A1 a lot, I'm older and not into tapeless that much either. Managing media over years is harder when you don't have tapes. We used to just shoot and trough the tape on the shelf. It was easy to find footage, no backup needed.

    But again I've consistantly said, "there is a ass for every saddle".

    I wish these discussions A1 vx. HVX would change to be more about the content and not how you got there. I never hear people ask if a film was shot with moviecam, panavision or Arriflex? The only thing they discuss is if it was good or not.
  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    haha - thats such a strong point there "I never hear people ask if a film was shot with moviecam, panavision or Arriflex? The only thing they discuss is if it was good or not."

    Thats exactly the point! And on Vimeo, people only ask 'what camera did you use' when they liked what you did....
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  • bunkofurko 8 months ago
    While shooting on film, it also makes tons of difference re. the camera being used, the film gauge, aspect ratio selected, not to mention the particular emulsion picked. Maybe not that much between a smaller Arri and a Movicam, but with those two vs. some bulky Panavision gear. Persoanally, I prefer Aaton cameras over the rest, then I would come Movicam (but they are so pricey), then Panavision, then finally Arri. This for 35mm, for S16mm I would still take the Aaton XTRProd or Xtera over an Arri SR3 or 416, but again, all of this is personal preference. But believe you me, the debate over which type of camera to shoot with and why is raging just as much on film-based sets than on digital shoots. Even ASC members go to close quarter fist combat over particular pet cameras.

    Personally, I also love file-based acquisition, it has so many advantages it is hard to list them all. However, I would either use a 3CCD prism type camcorder, or else a CMOS sensor camera with global shutter like what the Arri D-20/D-21 and the latest Phantom cameras have. I would not risk shooting anything other than 100% stationary objects with no camera movement introduced using a CMOS sensor camera with the rolling shutter mechanism (Red, Silicon Imaging, Sony, Panasonic, etc), especially for a feature or large budget commercial spot. For cripe's sake, the shutter moves from the top down WHILE the frame is being exposed, just how stupid is that for any camera to do? The film cameras of the year 1895 did not do that. Plueeese, cost-conscious camera manufacturers.... if you make your cameras with CMOS, do use a global shutter system.

    Anyhow
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  • bunkofurko 8 months ago
    Steve, I have trouble understanding this part: "I will say that the HPX300 does not look nearly as good as a P2 Varicam even know it's sensor may be bigger." Yes, the 300 has a 2.2MP 1/3-inch sensor and it is 3MOS with rolling shutter, as I understand it, and the VariCam 3700 is 3CCD w. a 2/3-inch sensor that is also native 1920 x 1080 2.2MP. It can also record in 4:4:4 RGB color space, like the other top dawg D-film cameras do. Plus, Panny footage looks more "filmic" from the get-go than what some of the other cameras out there can do.

    Did you say that the difference between the HPX300 and the VariCam 3700 is quite noticeable, or not much so? I would naturally assume that the image shot with the 3700 even in 4:2:2 recording would look superior to the CMOS sensor 300's recording. And maybe not even primarily due to the sensor size difference but the rolling shutter vs. global shutter difference, that can be obviously visitble in every single shot where there is subject or camera movement, especially fast movement.

    There is quite a bit to ponder here, one wishes to be able to spend a few days with all prospective cameras to do test shoots. You have to test these things yourself, anyhow, do not take anybody else's word for it.
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  • Shambhu Moktan 5 months ago
    Hi Steve, I am switching to HD very soon, I have seen EX3, JVC700 & HPX300 but never got chance to try, which one of them would you recommend for wedding purpose?
    Thanks
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  • Ben Myrick 4 months ago
    Where is this DOF adaptor you mentioned? I have yet to find anything besides the stock lens that'll fit the 300's 1/3" chip.
  • That is a product that Hien at Letus would have to create. Contact him at Letus. Last I heard he was making it.
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