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47. FilmFellas - webisode 7
8 months ago
“The Art of Making Money”

Passions flare brighter than ever in Webisode 7, where the filmmakers grapple with the challenge of making their movies both artful and profitable.

Conflict arises right at the start, as Steve and Kris argue about whether a film set should be like a “military operation” or an open “discussion.” Joe explains how his production process begins with bonding and talking among cast and crew members before the shooting schedule locks in around the third week. Steve voices his belief that every single business in America should have a television program, turning corporate entities into multimedia “gathering spaces.” Susan notes that the problem with corporate sponsors is their fear of any material considered remotely edgy. While Joe says he still intends on making his “art projects” small enough so he can continue to make money from them, Steve insists, “You make money when your video is tied to products.”
  • Military operation or discussion, what say you?
  • Ralph Lindsen 3 months ago
    as said in the video, it really depends on with who you work with and what kind of person you are.

    Sometimes you're lucky enough to find people who are on the same creative wavelength, or even better, stimulate en inspire you too thing greater than when you'd do it alone. If that is the case, you can make a film without being a dictator like director. But you have to be willing to entrust people to temper with your creation. If you can't do that, than by all means, dictate.

    The second major factor is size. Disussion is fine among a small crew. But if you have a crew of 50, everything will be total chaos when everybody is allowed to bring in ideas. But that still doesn't mean it's not possible to have discussion in a large production. you just have to contain it in a small core of people you trust. Than it can work.
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  • Dustin Keiser 8 months ago
    At the moment advertisement such as Google ads is pretty much the easiest way to make money from a website, the good thing about advertisement is no matter what you're website consist of, as long as you bring traffic to the site, people are going to see the ads. I agree with Steve, one Director is the way to go, I'm 22 and think it should still be done "that" way, but ideas should be able to come from any one, if it's a good idea...hahah
  • There way works too. I just saw Joe Swanbergs latest film last night called Alexander the Last, and it was great. Who knows, maybe I'll try it his way sometime, these kids definitely have something cooking.
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  • Dustin Keiser 8 months ago
    Here's the problem with the web, there is so much information and so much stuff on the web, but how do you filter out all the bullshit? It's like a library full of books, but none of the books have titles on the front, how do you distinguish what is good or bad? All the information you want to know is there, but how do you find it, you can search for it on Google or whatever but that doesn't always get you specifically what you're looking for.
  • Dustin,
    It's not instant but you build and audience, slow and sure. It's much like TV these days. There are 1000's of show throughout cable, so how do they develop an audience. The web is much better then this because you can develop a very very specific audience, like this show. Only Filmmakers watch this show, that means you don't need as big an audience, since everyone is essentially your target market.
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  • Phil Blauw 8 months ago
    I liked this episode a lot. Getting down to brass tacks.

    However, I was left a little confused about how Steve's business model looks. Were you just suggesting that they have an episode of something/anything on their website?

    While I agree that it would be really cool for the film maker, it would be a really expensive experiment for the retailer/business. They would really have to be exceptionally forward thinking, with a risk taking attitude. Unfortunately, I don't see many corporations that fit that mold.
  • I don't buy that Phil,
    Everyone here is willing to go into their pockets to make their movies.
    You can certainly talk a retailer or a business into making a video with little or no budget. Or do one for free to show them it's value.

    When I first got started in 1982, I had a crazy idea of doing fashion videos (which had never been done before) We told various manufacturers we would play these video on the department store floor (to create an enthusiasm) to which we were told department stores don't even have televisions or these new video recorders. So we rented the TV's and VCR's, put them in the department stores and we made it happen. We were the first people to display videos at the Point of Purchase. Now, it's in every single store.

    Innovation is never easy. You need to get creative and don't take no for an answer. When they say no, you find a way to do it and prove your concept to them. One day every business will have a video program of one kind of another on their website.

    Who's going to be the first to do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Steve
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  • jacob flores 8 months ago
    Look Steve Zacuto, Most artists are naturally anti-authoritarian...It comes with having a creative sensibility. Many artists are also averse to the tyrannic corporate structure and the unfair labor and trade practices companies like "Gap" are involved in. Artists are sensitive to and aware of issues like this...Many have a social and political conscience. So, having suits dictating what they and their collaborators are doing usually pisses artists off.
  • I'm with you Jacob Flores, my entire career for over 20 years was to find the happy medium between suits and my vision of the art that we were creating. After twenty years I was burnt out and tired of arguing. So that's when I went into the equipment design end of the business.

    I'm not telling filmmakers to go through all that. But a certain balance of that and filmmaking (which was not available to us at the time) would make a nice combo so your day job is not at a Starbucks and you actually imporve your filmmaking technique with your day job. Also, you improve you skills at budgeting and producing projects within budgets.

    Just another path. And I think if these webisodic shows were pitched correctly and they could see the value of it, you could almost get your way most of the time. Always own the characters and put in an option to pickup and take your show with you. Protections that give you control could be built in.
    Steve
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  • Matt Norman 8 months ago
    Hi Steve and cast,

    Well done on this episode. Was great to see that an open discussion like the one you had could bring out a good discussion point on exactly how a new generation can survive the "Entertainment Industry". Here in Australia you have to work really hard to get anywhere and be savvy. I'm lucky, I have had box office success and managed to stay focused on my path. Even if getting that success was the worst experience of my life. Anyway, thought I'd say congrats on a great web presence and great discussion....
    Matt Norman
    The Actors Cafe Pty Ltd
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  • Watermoore Imagery 8 months ago
    Steve,
    I like your approach to the concept. Obviously there has to be a joining of two worlds in terms of Artistry and Business if there are any intentions for money to be made. Me personally, I have worked in Video off and on my whole life. I have always viewed the two entities as separate as it is difficult to find ways to obtain income for your ideas and concepts. I am opening a small business selling my skill set as means of providing funding for my own projects as well as equipment acquisition, I also work for a local video production company for experience and funds for my own projects but your correct in terms of finding a way of being people together and finding a niche in which you can draw residual income from. I think that video-on-demand is an up and come'er, especially as internet streamed content becomes more widely available on regular tvs via Roku etc... Much like Hulu works with advertising mechanics. One would be able to present their product to a company who has a product that would appeal to your target audience and present it like a theatrical presentation, forced advertisement prior to the presentation of the piece. That way we are not interrupting the continuity of the piece and we can guarantee its seen and it keeps the business out of the art but both benefit.
  • I'm not a fan of advertising. What I mean is to make a webisodic program that is passionate and gets people talking, (like FilmFellas) and use it as the advertising to get people to a certain site on a regular basis (this is what business owners strive for).

    So one example would be to make a show about Harley's and have harley specialist or famous harley riders, enthusiasts, talking about stories or road trips they've taken. This will drive viewers to watch this. Have the show on a Harley website that has an aution site for Harley parts, has an on-line store that sells Harley accessories & has info about taking Harley road trip packages. The show is what drives people to the site on a regualar basis. Some will buy and some won't. The cost of production is realitvely cheap compared to advertising, you'll see the ROI is infinitely less than Google PPC ads or print ads that the Harley company may currently be doing.

    On the Gaps website should be a 20-30 something drama show that starts to garner an audience like television. It has nothing to do with the Gap or their chothes. But if 1M people a year come to see the show a certain percentage will buy. If you have people returning to the Gap's website every two weeks to watch a webisode and the Gap is not selling them product, then the Gap is not doing there job. We can only bring people to the Gap site (a goal of any business), the onus is on the Gap to sell to them, and if they are not they either need to improve there products or pricing.
    Steve
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  • Phil Blauw 8 months ago
    Well Steve, I've never been accused of being a "Visionary", and you very well may be absolutely correct. One thing I would like to hear from you and your cast on is your ideas of marketing and pitch.

    Most people I know in this business are in the producing/production end of things, but are quite often completely out of their element when it comes to the marketing portion. Some of that can be learned for sure, but I also think there is definitely some left brain/right brain issues that some just can't overcome.

    At what point do you hire a marketing company to represent your company and or project. Where do you find a professional that can help, and not hinder.
  • Excellent point Phil,
    Production companies usually have one fatal flaw. Typically, it’s two good friends, who partner together, that are interested in film/video and they get together and say let’s start a production company. Neither of them are really businessman, so they both go out and pitch some deals. They get a gig, but the minute you start that project no one is looking for the next and you then have to be unemployed whilst you are looking for the next job. The key to a successful production company is finding one partner who is interested in film/Video and one who is interested in sales/business. The sales/business partner can’t be interested in production, he needs to be always focused on business. I had this scenario and it worked great. The business partner was constantly looking for business, especially while we were working on jobs and were constantly working on multiple jobs at one time and it never stopped. Rick, my business partner in the 1980’s & 90’s was very successful at getting business, eventually we sold the production company to a large design firm looking to getting into meetings and events and adding video capabilities to their operations.
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  • Trent Whittington 8 months ago
    Hi Steve and crew!

    Many thanks for making Filmfellas, I'm currently studying an associate degree in television in Sydney, Australia and I have convinced our lecturers to let the whole class watch it every release.
    Very informative and there is a vast amount of perspectives which is good.

    Thanks again!
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  • Mac McLemore 8 months ago
    Steve Weiss is a pompus prick. I truley hope he is enjoying watching the industry reconstitute itself.
  • Mac,
    I'd say you are right on both accounts. Reconsitution makes for all kinds of opportunities for creative people who have innovative ideas and I probably am a pompus prick.
  • Gregory Storm plus 8 months ago
    Hey Mac,

    You gotta move with the cheese, man.
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  • Gregory Storm plus 8 months ago
    Hi Steve -

    I'm not up to this episode yet, but I figured since it's the latest one that I should post here instead of episode 3.

    I know it must be tedious to reanswer the "what cameras did you use?" question. So can you post the important production notes in each episode description? An equipment list would be helpful.

    I know you used 5 HVX200As with one on a dolly with a DOF adapter. You had one softbox overhead right? What softbox / light and what did you support it with?

    What I'd also like to know is what type of dolly did you use? Where you on a circle track?

    I'm thinking you could have gotten by with 6 people on crew. One on each camera and one pushing the operator on dolly. Maybe a seventh to monitor sound. Were there more or less?

    Did each person's microphone go into the HVX200A that had their angle or did you put all 4 mics into one recorder?

    I'm about to direct / shoot a project with the same type of style of John Favreau's "Dinner for Five" or your FilmFellas. Any advice from the production angle?

    I'm planning on using all 5D Mark IIs by the way if that colors your advice.

    Thanks!
  • Gregory,
    Wow, am I going to give the entire store away on you, I do have a few secrets that I’m keeping that is my style.

    I don’t know a lot of what you are asking, I’m a director not the DP or in the lighting crew.
    I think we had about a 6 man crew, 1 chef to prepare the food and make the table. A PA to clean and support us. Each person’s audio went to his or her CU camera. One of the camera operators was in charge of sound and each cameraman monitored his own sound.

    Personally, I don’t think 5D is going to be great choice for this. They don’t record sound easily and they tend to drift a bit when recoded off camera. You are going to have very shallow DOF which means you are going to need incredible camera operators to pull focus or assistants to help. But prove me wrong and make it work. Would be cool to see.
  • Gregory Storm plus 6 months ago
    Hey Steve!

    I wanted to thank you for all the info. It was really helpful.

    Since my first message I've been doing a lot of shooting. We haven't done round table but we have put together a 3-camera shoot of an art class.

    We've now shot about half a terabyte of footage and it looks nice. Everyone is real happy with it.

    The 5D Mark II is working out like a champ. It's a little bit harder to operate but the payoff in color and picture quality more than makes up for the camera work arounds and 4GB file limitation.

    In the class scenario, we only need one people on mic, so we went with the G2 system into a Zoom H4N.
  • Great Gregory, check out our H4N video vimeo.com/4782593
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  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    See now this video was a good one. Touches on a lot of of the shoots that i do everyday. In the extreme sports industry, more and more companies are going for the 'online series' and promoting their products through their sponsored athletes. Give someone a reason to come back to a website for more that just images and text is big business. Its not essentially film making in the classic sense, but depending on how competitive the industry will determine how aggressive the end product is.

    I think that if a company has video content on their site that is enough to keep users coming back and back, you will end up successfully building relationships with your potential customers. People are more willing to then spend money with that company....

    And in this case with Zacuto, they are doing something that has never been done before. When i first saw 4 guys in the 'great camera shootout' it was such a cool way of promoting a company - i couldn't believe that nobody had thought of it before.

    Right, time to get in touch with the gap.... :)
  • A webisodic show is an artform like any other. They can be awesome or suck. It's up to the filmmaker to make it amazing. Your content is so exciting to begin with you should be able to make incredible content and or a series about extreme sports that should garner a return audience. You just need to make sure that you have stuff for them to buy, auction, trade, whatever when they arrive each week. Or place the show on a manufacturers site and get paid for it.

    You are damn right it's time to get in touch with the Gap. Before someone else does. Sell them on an edgy webisodic show. Another one to call is Abercrombie, they are not afraid of a little nudity and I bet you could make a very sexy drama series for them. This is an incredibly exciting time, it's like we are all TV execs. picking shows to make. Have fun with it.
  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    GAP here we come!!

    Now this will seem like a crazy thing to say, so bare with me.... but the adult entertainment industry probably makes the most money on the web as far as video content goes. Subscriptions to online site that provide regular updates. Its just the same as pay per view - this business model, must be adaptable to regular videos online. Paying for consistent quality content that you get everyday for your $30 a month.
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  • I think Joe Swanberg says it best, the precident was set for people to get content on the internet for free and people don't want to pay for content. But they don't mind paying for products. Yes some Porn sites can get $30/month for content but they are stuggling with all of these free porn sites.

    I think this is going to be hard to get people to sign up unless you are giving some specific content i.e. radiology courses that give them continuing education credit.

    Of course this is a discussion but I've been noodleing this for quite some time and tying it to products is what I've found as a viable method. But I'm open to hearing new ideas.
  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    'The Zacuto Shooting course - Showing you how to use your gear like the professionals' haha

    Show people how the pro's approach shoots with an HVX or EX range camera. I'd pay to learn it :)
  • It's in the works. The title of the series is "Zacuto basic training" Jens and I in our military garb and tent SKYPE filmmakers around with orders from command.

    Here are the first webisodes coming in June/July
    Mission 1: Cinematographer 101 - Spend a day on a shoot with Philip Bloom DoP and see what he does.
    Mission 2: Car Chase - Edi Schneider from Romania runs us through how to shoot a car chase.
    Mission 3: The Inverview - TBD - How to shoot an amazing interview.
    Mission 4: Multi-camera shooting - TBD

    The webisodic series like all is free of charge and we encourage everyone to watch it and see how these pro's do what they do. Should be a fun series and I'm looking forward to it. Please let us know if you have other ideas for missions that would interest you.
    Steve
  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    How about the use of moving shots?

    Dollys, Steadicams, Sliders etc etc - how and also (more importantly) when to use them? Thats just a personal request i guess.

    I've also never seen a 'tutorial' on the use of natural light when shooting outdoors.

    Apart from that, can't wait to see these!!!!

    Let me know if you want a working with water housings and being in/on the water - haha
  • Oh, I'm such and idiot. Hello :0)
    Of course we want one on how to shoot extreme sports and using underwater houseings. Would you consider doing that one with us. We are going to get started right after NAB.
  • TheWakePlace.com 8 months ago
    I'll do it.... :)
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  • Phil Blauw 8 months ago
    Hmm... Porn. Wsh I had thought of that. Bwwwwahaahaaa.
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  • Sean Cruser 8 months ago
    "if you're gonna make anything good you're gonna have to offend a couple people" - nice one.

    and as someone who almost always collaborated extensively during production, i find the divide in styles quite fascinating.
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  • Bruce Tritton 8 months ago
    Personally I think cinema will shrink drastically in the future as will television. The internet is without a doubt the future. Mix the Internet and Home theater and you have an unbeatable combination. Given that this technology is already available but not standard yet it won't be long before it becomes the norm'

    I also think in the future that profits will come from sponsors rather than the public. Effectively sponsors will be paying to have movies made. Given torrent sites and so on, people won't need to 'buy' downloads.

    As usual a great video Steve. And thank you ladies and gentlemen for helping us newbies!
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  • Dave Grant 6 months ago
    I love this video but nitch is not a word.

    Niche is the word, its french:

    ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from French, literally ‘recess,’ from nicher ‘make a nest,’ based on Latin nidus ‘nest.’

    Thanks for the vid
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  • Paul W. Rankin plus 5 months ago
    Thanks for the videos Steve. I don't think there was ever any declaration that the internet is or should be free, this is a model created by poor-thinking businesses putting content online for free. These people saw the internet as a novelty they could exploit to point to their "real" product in the physical world, i.e. newspapers, but then the tides turned and an online presence is, in many cases, more valued than the physical product that brings any revenue.

    The problem I see with free content is that is fosters a zero value in the mind of the viewer/consumer, and the very basis of a capitalist economy is agreed value in commerce. Just say you invest enough time, effort and money into a project to expect to at least break even, then you give away your product for free — you're effectively creating a dishonest transaction between yourself and consumer, one where the consumer expects something for free, but you expect some sort of revenue, and this can never lead to a positive outcome on both sides.

    I'd be willing to wager that the most commercially successful online merchant is iTunes, who have always remained transparent in their transactions, i.e. $X for Y. I think the future of content on the internet is definitely paid.
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  • iamkalaniprince plus 4 months ago
    This is great, I enjoyed every second of it. All throughout my 20's I ignored the business man inside and only let the starving artist out to play. Finally at 33yrs old the two have met for coffee and worked out their differences. It's a much more beautiful and fruitful way to live. Create and Complete.

    Thanks Steve, Kalani

    PS: I just sent Jonathan a RedHead for review.
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