Show Notes with Links:
servicesphere.com/blog/2012/8/6/illusions-of-choice-todays-enterprise-of-tomorrow-itsm-weekl.html

Show Notes and Transcription:
Illusions of Choice, Today's Enterprise of Tomorrow

What happens when a CIO, a Service Desk Manager and an Industry Junkie Chat Weekly?!

Your Hosts: Chris Dancy, Matthew Hooper and Matt Beran (twitter #ITSMWP)

Guest: NONE, an intimate chat between Hooper and Chris.

Submit Questions: Anonymously or Email or Call In: (765) 236-6383 or Twitter Questions/Comments #ITSMWP

**News Gator: Updates from Tech**

Episode 93 Topics:

The Devops episode seemed to be popular
Botchagalupe
The Stevie Chambers Effect on Twitter
SMAK Updates
Are IT people naturally entrepreneurial?
The Arrow of Time
The illusion that of business today.
Just Landed App (location, big data in an app for flight info)
Twist App for iphone
HDI 2013 Conference
itSMF News…not really.
How to fix itSMF Global
How do you explain what’s going with the Facebook Group #Back2ITSM for the ITSM pros?
BYOD Debate, the IT Skeptic’s point of View
Dancy’s world EDICTS on ITSM Review
The BYOD Debate from Chris Dancy’s Point of View
Talent Wars in IT
Cyborg attacked in McDonalds
Higher education building infrastructure for support, 3 devices PER CHAIR in a classroom
Grey Scale Vision
How does Facebook handle change management?
Ryan Holmes - The Facebook Tweak that killed a billion dollar industry
Secure Data, NOT devices, CIO.com
What happens when GitHub gets hacked
Salesforce adds influencer data
The problem with social media USER is consumption
If you want to actually be INFLUENTIAL, observe the world around you.
LifeNaut, you are a digital person
HDI connect articles
The risk to IT, is ultimately the news stories about the RISKS to IT.
The lie IT tells itself.
Creation is crack for Egomaniacs
As a leader and a mentor how do you handle creationist?
Forms of digitiality we spawn into the world, how do we watch them grow up.
Wanting to create value, truly deep inside.
ITSM Weekly Podcast Top of the World Edition
ITSM Weekly Podcast Antipodean Edition
Don’t turn yourself into a digital billboard

SHOW TRANSCRIPTION:

ITSM Weekly, the podcast bringing you news, insight analysis, and information from the world of IT service management. Your hosts, Matthew Hooper, Chris Dancy, and Matt Beran. IT Service Management Weekly the Podcast starts now. Welcome to ITSM Weekly, the podcast, episode 93. How are you doing, Hoop?

Good. '93. '93. I feel so old. You think? Yeah. Maybe it's because I turned 40 recently. Did you? When was that, did miss your birthday? You did, yeah. Sorry about that. That's all right. Are you 40 even? 40 even; I'm even 40. So, lots to catch up on. Last week we had our guest and we really didn't have a chance to catch up on all the news that we had for all the fine things.
We were supposed to have a young lady by the name of Adrianne who is from Yale University on this week, but things just didn't work out, she's going to come on next week so we have to put her off I thought this would be a good time for you and I to catch up on some news, all sorts of news and gossip.
Awesome. As well as, you know how we keep sneaking Mark Zuckerberg, he comes on whenever whenever we're not actually recording he shows up, he's like "hey put me on the air" you know we're going to [xx] time have the sponsors of tomorrow coming up on a show. So I won't say who but I'm sure you smart, marketing savvy people can figure out sponsors of tomorrow.
What do you think about that Hoop? I think it's awesome. I love big name guests. Yes, and they love us apparently. They do. Of course. We're leaving innovation here in the ITSM space. Yes. And it's not because we're awesome, it's just because the bar's so stinking low. Yeah. If service management were limbo, you would have to be a parapalegic.
Im one of those creepers. Weve got a lot to catch up You don't even know what a creeper is do you? No. I just assume it's some type of hooperism. No. A creeper is something that they have in mechanic shops. you know in garages. Oh. So that you can lay down and you can slide under the car. You know in Grease right before the scene for grease lightning they all come out on the sleepers - creepers - creepers or sleepers?
- creepers - Is there ever a reason you would be on your stomach on a creeper? Yeah you'd have to always face up. - Yeah cause you are working on the The underbody of the car. If you put a hole where your face would be on a creeper and you lay it on your stomach, it could also act as a massager and you could flip the car upside-down below ground.
Oh, brother. Remember those old rafts where they use to have the whole all cut off your face so your kids get actually book in the wire no it happens the stuff no so that i cannot swim so that yeah.... isn't it? So I think the episode with Mr Willis there seemed explosively exciting people talking about Dev Ops.
Yes, yeah, a great guest. Interesting fellow. I've enjoyed watching. That's great, I don't know how to turn this phone off. answer the phone during the podcast. That seems to work. That's exactly what I want to do. That's fine for me. You know So I didn't, so I've been following @bacciagalupe, did we ask him how to say it?
No, I'm too embarrassed to. So, I have, yeah I've been following him for a while on twitter. here, honestly I did not pay that much attention to his staffs, he is always that kind of creepy [xx] very kind of [xx] avatar. He still does. We call that the Stevie Chambers effect. Yeah, yeah. Like Stevie Chambers.
In fact, when I first started following [xx] My wife asked me to stop because it was creeping out the kids on the Twitter stream. you know, if your wife and kids are close enough to see your Twitter stream, I think that might be an issue in itself. You want to get on t.v? I check Twitter Phone, laptop, television.
Do you check smap for Twitter? So I've not checked Twitter directly because of using smap. Well you don't have to speaking of Smack, any news in the Smack world? We need a smack sound effect. yeah it is a mall we are super products to the cuthoders and keep on the south industry yeah tell i think help needed.... Nice.
Because they're just, they are just constantly searching for skill sets, they're searching for job opportunities, its a predictable kind of analysis that we can do on the social mining in the e-mail. Nice. So it allowed us to get to market with a little bit more focused, and kind of show the capability of the tools because we're trying to serve a lot of masters.
And we're ultimately not serving anybody. And we weren't going to have a happen anytime soon. So Barren wasn't a big fan? No. Well, you know, Barren's not here today because he's unplugged from the internet. And I messaged him about Sacca Bayori [sp?] went live to say, Hey, since you're unplugged and tweeting and adding things to the Facebook for Back to ITSM, and sending emails because you're unplugged.
Run it during the podcast anyway. And he said no. That's So apparently unplugged means just me. Yeah, yeah. Just [xx] from me. But that's okay. We won't take it personally, Baron. You won't. Yeah. I made that kid. I feel like Colonel Tom Parkers, kicked in the face. What are you gonna do? Find a new rockstar.
Yeah bigger than life. So what happened oh u got an award or u remain a cto decade or some other seminar or started to take a reality gather to a jack junction smack or what is it.......... yeah, so they wanted me to help take over Yahoo. But with Smack, I just don't have the time. Then, trying to dedicate more time to the podcast actually prepared with show notes.
Don't do that while I'm drinking. I would hate to spit take right during a podcast. So, it's been a couple of nominated, couple of awards, we've won some pitch competitions. You know, start-up life is hard, and this is not the first business I've started so it wasn't that I was taken by surprise by a lot of it.
I'm just really shocked at the level of difficulty it has become in the investment community. In my previous businesses, I never raised funds before. We grew organically and we had, you know, we focused on revenue from customers, but I always had the opportunity to get cash from investors if we had needed it.
And now, even though you hear all the things about Instagram being bought for a billion dollars and all of these different companies being bought for a billion dollars, that is giving the whole start-up scene a, actually a really bad taste for the entrepreneurs, because it's frustrating to walk in with your pitch deck and talk about a, you know, $30, $40, $50 million initial market when these investors are hearing constantly that, you know, there is the 200, 800 billion dollar exit.
And so they are immediately trying to do the math, like "how do I get on the next Instagram? How do I make sure that's where my money's at?" And they're not naive. I mean, they don't think that everything's going to be like that, but it certainly does set a bar that is overly complicated and difficult to [xx] up to.
Yeah. So it's, you know start up life's a . Anybody who runs a business, any CEO. Anybody who's started a business. You've started a business. You've started Service VS.
Yes, I've started a business, but don't you think that a lot of IT people are natural entrepreneurs just because of their IT nature? Doesn't that just make them naturally entrepreneurial, and don't you think they could actually learn a lot by watching start-ups? Even if you're just a sever administrator, just launching start ups in how they function I think could be a great help in helping you be entrepreneurial.
yeah, so I view myself as a leader in some ways. And that I I like to push forward. I'm not always tapped into a box, so, if I if I try to push forward. If it's for my own company, it's entrepreneurial. If it's for another person's company, is it intrapreneurial? I'm good with either one of PLAY have to be honest.
The difficult place for me is as a consultant. Because, I frequently see myself in a circumstance where I am listening to a conversation and I am just shaking my head like this isn't the way leading to success, you know - Wait a minute, I'm on a Hooper episode 83, be fascinated, not frustrated. Yeah, aa no i tried that to be facinited and say no in a other mean that in a opalsilism........ simplified way either.
What I really try to do as a consultant is step back and say, okay, what have have the learnings been for these people? What have the lessons been for these people? What have the leaders bend to these people. In that they are thinking that more process, and more documentation leads to more control in more stability.
It leads to more job creation. IT is a in-process work in [xx] job to the reason talk yeah well it is a mind set by way i got a raiser on my thumb so i can cut the operation tall my wrist in case you get too serious on me today. Let me pull out my idol books right now no, but I think that's what I try to do.
I step back and say, cause that's the mindset right? We think, what if I document this and nothing changes an the end kilo dicussion we are going to stay with system and we all know that it not true no stuffs breaks things felt i have to break at the end........ says that we're going from a state of organization to a state of disorganization.
So things will continue to break. They will continue to fall apart. They will continue it's just the way, that's how the arrow of time works. We'd have no perception of time if things didn't fall apart. If everything was perfect all the time, we would look there'd be nothing to see. We need things to fall apart.
There's a myth out there, though, that there's I think it's propagated a lot by some of the business consultants. About bigfoot? Gardner's maturity model, for instance, talks about that. That we go from chaos to managed to predictable to the added value. That's a myth because that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen, and we all those of us who've worked in value-based organizations know that when you have strong communication with the stake-holders, then you can work collaboratively in a frenzy, you can drive success. You know, when I think about strong communication with a stake-holder, I think about trying to tell somebody not to attack a vampire.
Yeah, Buffy. I hate that term 'stake-holders' cause I think, you're just trying to kill a vampire That's right take house and have good time now.
I get..
I mean its a bit don't but ask but its a good time because you know not everybody's best of interest. not everybody has the choice to have a vested interest. To me, that's the reason I don't like this whole stake-holder drama and facade. it is a spike the lotion the people could be apart or not to it much difference to the reality the people are student firm and we not collected their torm and i think the reality in business today is we treat this false for the social ecnomic whether they are political whether they are based on body size particles..
we place these walls and things around us within business that dissolve, that diminish culture, that really remove collaboration and one of so excited about social and have been for so many years. And Mobile, it removes us from having to look at each other. And the minute you don't have to look at someone, you can kind of tolerate that much more.
There's something about human that just intrinsically doesn't work, that makes business fail. You know, I saw a really interesting ap. You know I love mobile and yeah check this out big dad or all this thing we mostly perfectly matched it is called just landed are u ready for this are u heard this just landed just landed no......... you put in the flight number of the person you're going to pick up.
Wait, I was making a noose with my mouse cable while you were talking so I could hang myself as you went on this socio [xx] Hi let me put my razor back on my thought [laughs] [xx] my razor [xx] [xx] so what is just landed about? so its really cool think how power full this is alright. It uses everything that is cool except for may be social.
You put in the flight number the friend you want to pickup. Does this use cloud yeah. If your friends [xx] scores below five, it crashes the plane. No. You put in the [xx] put in the flight number of your friend. It then looks at where you are physically, where your phone's located. It looks at the traffic patterns between you and the airport and it looks a real time flight information on the internet and it tells what time you need to leave the house That's awesome, I always to a build a arc that i called even ETA. Then I could just say I'm going to meet somebody and they know I'm going to meet them. Here's my ETA request. If you accept it, it's going to start is synchronizing us and telling us where we are from each other. So, you know, 'cause it's like, when we're busy that extra 15 to 20 mins you have to leave some place or someone is going to show up or that it they have other 10 mins the park actually been raid.
You're just a little bit behind the news, because on July 18th, an ap called Twist so IOS got six million dollars. And the whole point of that is you opt in with your friends. So when you say you're on your way to get them, it actually tells you in real time how far away they are fear. What? The 18th.
You're two days behind that [xx]. It's not two days behind. I hear she talked about this on the podcast about a year ago. Oh really, what number? It would have been like 72. Yeah, you like make-up numbers like I do. So, more news. I am not in Ohio. As you can tell. I'm not my normal abode. I was wondering where you're housekeeper was; it's Friday.
Shut up. Well what would be have you [xx] my home. Who would you [xx] these days. What are you doing in Ohio? I had to speak at I-Kiss MF. Nice. I didn't have to. I volunteered I guess I should say. Good for you. I like the kids out here. Any big news at in ITS MF? worlds'? Well lets see. No. So, actually, speaking of my taste in using conference coming with all sorts of thought leaders.
If you're a thought leader and you're speaking there, you're not leaning much. But they do have an award this year for lifetime achievement, and I was going to submit for myself, but the requirements clearly state that to receive the reward, you have to have a Ouija Board. Because obviously See they are coming from the other side of the world to tell about.
No, everything is going to take as HTTI has a call for speakers out right now. For their 2013 show. It's still weird to think, 2013. Well, yeah. Obviously they are not Mayans those HTI people. So the fusion chat has been light. That's in October right. Yeah I think 2 episodes ago we said the biggest parts they have is the consulting company, people just you know.
Fusion really needs to focus, in may opinion. It was brilliant for them to partner with HTI, but if you look at the [xx] of community. I think it's literally falling apart for one very simple fact. We live in a global world and they actually said that by country, and then segment here in the US, and some other [xx] by location which works for impersonate working but I think on a collaborative scale it just falls apart I mean Get the way somebody said,[xx] silver star i said i clear i remember oh!
why? interesting so ok. And HTI is still doing their HTI yearly conferences [xx]. Yeah. So its not going to get big draw too right. Yeah, its a pretty big draw last year I mean What was really interesting was HTI had a conference in that same time frame. It was a service management conference and it was a different format.
Instead of like one-hour sessions, they were like three-hour workshops. They dropped that and then just picked up that show and just re-signed on Just I think two weeks ago, signed on for another three year extension with Fusion. So, more power to him. I just think two things: Fusion [xx] global. I'll make it real simple- drop the chapter system.
If someone in Australia is talking to someone one, in a conference in New Zealand it's possible to forget this whole geo-thing. And the second thing is and if you want to drive member value. Send people to conferences that members want to listen to and members find interesting. Do something to empower.
The thing that HGI and I-Kiss I think have going for them more than anything, is they are employee-driven machines. I mean, you can join these organizations, get involved at the local level, get involved at the national level, get involved at the international level, however you want to define that get involved part.
But ultimately, it makes to a better person. Because you understand what it means to have a meeting, you get some entrepreneurial skills. They really need to take what they do well, which is employee you know, career advancement, career skills, and say, listen, we're an organization. We focus on team, but you know.
Look at what Toastmasters does. I mean, they make people better and that's what [xx] ultimately do but they don't really spend a lot of time doing that. They make these little isolated kings and then they just keep having them back, having them back, having them back, so I've had enough. Yeah, I don't know.
I think the models struggled for some time, and beating a dead horse on who they have a speakers. The last New England chapter that was here locally, the quarterly meeting they had. I attended and I spoke there. The rest of the speakers they had were really great, and I have to say it was probably one of the best ITSM events I've attended and not one of the speakers was a local chapter member.
So I guess that's kind of the rub, right? Is if you're in the local chapter, you kind of wanna you want to be involved. That's your chance. That's what we should be doing with members. We should be taking members that have never spoken who are afraid to speak at work and give them to opportunity. Yeah.
We need to be investing in our people. That's our chance to grow and really groom our membership for [xx] and leadership and we just don't do that. We fly people in from all over. Yeah I think it's tough, you know. Actually, take that back, so [xx] now who is, who's been on the show for. And smart.
Smart guy. Actually I've seen him speak, he's a pretty good speaker. This time his speech was tough. He had a lot of fact some interesting figures, that there was market dynamics which I usually like. It just for me was just rough. And I chatted a little bit with him, and I think he felt a little rough with it as well, too.
Have you noticed everybody's on the tough-talk express lately?
Well, that's the Ted X effect. Everybody now is this amazing speaker cause you got Ted X and that's the bar and that's tough for somebody who you could have talked about this earlier, not every I.T. person is extroverted, entrepreneurial, you know, wanting to put themselves out but they're certainly bright and intelligent and have great ideas and want to share knowledge and just may be don't know how to do that.
So I don't know that I.T. has some perfect form for that. May be it needs to be a little bit looser and just kind of do the meetup thing and just create a meetup on change management if that's your thing or problem management if that's your thing. Get a subset, and if it's only just ten or fifteen folks where you can talk passionately about a certain topic.
How do you explain, because I know you're not overly involved, the 400 plus people in the back to ITSM group that are from every conceivable time zone. All getting together twenty-four hours a day leaving information and moving along. If the fact that people wanted to be globally connected and the chapter system just doesn't work.
How do you explain that? You can't. Yeah, so I am going to take your the comment that I'm not overly involved because I haven't posted a lot. So you read it? But I do read it, yeah. I've seen quite a bit of it actually. There's a new feature now that Facebook Place that show you who read what post.
Yeah, I don't know the picture up till when I read in this mags. So but I have consumed a lot of it. And what I appreciate about it is the folks who are in there. They've shown some of their of their aptitude and capabilities and skills around ITSM, but then they've shown their own personalities so.
Yeah. You know So Kerr ferries from our [xx] show I didn't really know who she was I didn't know any thing about her but I have kind of enjoyed watching her part she is pretty active you know Custy, his local boss the guy me and him have been talking to about getting together forever, haven't. But I've gotten to know him more now through that.
And obviously, Stephen Mann is not just posting stuff about ITSM, but just general stuff. And so it's good, you're seeing a different side of folks in that group. It's become the micro-network that I think that it was intended to be. Yeah. And, the big thing I think is it will be replaced by another micro-network.
Yeah. No. I've actually watched it. I'll tell you my purpose in monitoring it. It's two fold. You're trying to overthrow it. I'm psychoanalyzing everybody so I can manipulate them. It's really just for me, a way to see the dynamics how people engage in forms. Because i have a deep background and knowledge of ITSM.
It's a layer that I already have that kind of ability to relate to them on the topic, and now I get to see the social profile side lot of things. And it's helping people lock down their Facebook. So, I notice it takes people a lot of time to join, but when they do, and I checked your actually profile.
Because, that's what's great about the group. You don't have to be friends with people, right? But you get to act like you are. Yep. You know, you get to see, okay, you've taken your time to lock it down That XX was nothing else.I think as an IT industry we succeed. So what do think about of the softXX today, that he is kept at I don't know, do something skeptic-ish and write a blog.
I'll put a link and some show notes that I will write. You know, we've got all these shows transcribed now. Yes. His whole point being I'm going to paraphrase because we don't have time to read the blog. I read it, and I'm like, OK, so basically it's up to the business. The business has to to protect everything and if you don't like it, you're just being a child, and demanding your toys and get out.
You know, that's the thing. Get out. be fired. So what's the debate? Who has the right to determine whether you bring your own device or not? I think to me, I was going to respond but I've gotten very, very selective about how I use social media. That's one of the things I love about it, is I don't think comments are called comments because that's where you have a debate.
Right? So, I don't like going to websites where you leave a comment and then somebody comes back five days later and defends like 16 points that you commented. They are called comments, it's not called conversation, it's not called debate. That's why you'll never see me in any of the things I do over in my e-desk, you know, one of those things where I pretend to be a jerk.
Well, that's debatable.
It's debatable whether you're pretending?
Yeah, that's a good point. But that's why I don't comment. You know. I don't go in there and defend my point of view. I got to write it. Yeah, I got to write it. You read it, it's up to you now, right?
And I have the right to put comments on it because I read it.
Right.
I took my time to read it and I'm gonna He has the right to sit there and come back. Oh, a long story short, god bless him, he's my favorite nemesis in the entire world. He's not really my my nemesis. You know, there's probably no other on the Earth I care for as much as I care for him. Probably because I've met his wife and his kid and they're damn good people. So if you're Mr. Heatmiser, then who is he If I'm Heatmiser, he's the frostguy - Frostman.
Yeah. [xx] and I [xx] my side of the story, which is, I really wish we would get off this whole debate around BYOD because it's a red herring. It's another jobs program, and it makes It's ridiculous, right? Someone said, back when people would have used their own PCs at work and all this other kind of stuff, and I keep finding article after article after article to back up my point of view.
Now, one of two things is happening. I'm looking - What's your point of view? My point point of view is you need to secure the data. So you need to encrypt it. If it's on a device, you need to be able to wipe that device. The device is not not the issue. That data's the issue. Right. The fact that I bring eye-glasses to work, right, that's bring your own device.
The fact that I bring my own laptop, that's bring your own device. Secure your data.Right? But I keep finding these articles that say just that. You know, HBR came out with an article right after I wrote my pseudo response to him, but it wasn't a response just kind of, this is how I feel about BYOD.
It's a data security thing. It's not a device thing. I think the thing that really upsets me about this the most, the whole BYOD debate, is simple.Right now to easy to say, it is like a toy,it is not a i-pad.Fine it showed XX. What you are coming to do You know mikey has sneakers now, that measures actually in sneaker monitory your location and feed it back to [xx].
so you're telling me to off my shoes right, the device is such a red herring for a time as common past, and you know online. When I said this to Rob, he said, you'll just be fired. And I said, that's just fine. There's a talent war you don't expect plumbers to use your wrench when they come to your house.
You want them to use their tools. It's just silly. And you look at the guy at the McDonald's. Did you hear about this guy at McDonald's in Paris who got attacked?
No.
Maybe it was about a week ago. He's a professor in Canada. He's been a "human cyborg" for about fifteen years. But he's been slowly augmenting himself with technology to record and enhance his cognitive abilities and things like that for about fifteen years. He's a professor, so they do crazy stuff.
Oh well. I was in a McDonald's and apparently there was some type of issue and because he was recording all this, they attacked him. So, again, BYOD.
Like, physically attacked him?
Physically attacked him.
Oh that's lame. They should've like hacked into him and made him hit himself in the face. So that would've been cool.
So just yesterday when I was speaking at ITSMF, they were saying over here at OSU, the new standard for infrastructure support is in each class room. Each seat filled has to have enough ban-width to support three devices. Wow. There's a company, I'll put a link in the show, that's released the first and I can't remember what they're calling it.
Something with the word 'retina' in it, I think. But what it does is it gives people pixel grey-scale vision to the blind. So 567 grey-scale vision to the blind. Again, are you going to tell someone take your eye out when you come to work. You can't sit here and have some red herring debate about bring your own device, when the problem is the data and the security.
If you just treat your people well, you don't have to worry about them taking your information. Yeah. And by the way, most people don't crave information worth taking. I haven't read a white paper in three years, that I thought wow I have got to save this, it doesn't happen any more. yeah, it's insane.
That data has always been the issue at risk right? Yeah, it's the asset. So I don't understand what the debate is, it's a silly debate. I think anybody who's living - what it really comes down to in my mind is a lazy and wanting to understand where the data resides. How do we protect it? How do we secure it?
How to put in the regulation around that so we can have kind of this open access and kind of a freedom of communication without a freedom of the data that needs to be there. It's some work. It takes some architecture work and it's a constant thing. We were just talking about this yesterday in a discussion there was a question around change management and when the DBAs changed the data should that go through change management because that data then rolls up to these different applications and you application's not going to work if the data's wrong and all these kinds of things.
And it's like, you know, there are many systems in which the data data is probably the only thing you should watch for change management. Let's, for a moment, look a the largest data set on the planet, right, and how they handle change management. So the largest the status that probably consumers have access to.
I'll put some qualifications in here. Is Facebook. Alright. The largest data-set that a consumer uses have access to is probably Facebook. How does Facebook handle change management with the stake-holders? I'm a stake-holder. They don't. They just change things. They just change things. And they get away with XX because there service provide XX XX that i will really take a XX relief, write,is that valuable to me and some people.
You are not just gonna leave, so is there as facebook the model that were heading tored. Where IT services and [xx] are so valuable that IT just does what they want. And the whole idea that we ever spent time worrying about change management was just craziness, or is Facebook just so out of touch that they're ending, you know, their business is gonna collapse any day now.
Yeah, well I mean I think it depends on what the data is, data is. Facebook data is not things that gonna jeopardize in my world, my kids lives.
No, but what about the advertisers. Like [xx] a Wall Street Journal article by our friend CEO Ryan Holmes of HootSuite who was on the show I'll put a link to his show. He just wrote a Wall Street Journal article that by removing tabs on Facebook pages, Facebook wiped out a billion dollar industry. So yeah, it's not effecting you, but what about if Smack knew it was doing something and had some type of commerce and attacked.
Facebook didn't tell you they changed it. This weird B to B be to see world, its all kind of converging, by the way the article was for BYOD best practices secured data not devices, its available O. Bohan [sp?] cio.com dated July 17th.
Yeah, again I think it comes back to You know for specific line change management you know really comes back to what is the data you know that dated has different value you is the information about sir, they are things i can have more people's have access to you there have thejirod. right, ever, anybody, except myself
and there is something that i could careless about, so its just, how you approach [XX] here results, i will an willing a share.
I think, you have an kind of security, when i worked with from's and pasts that's what they would start with, where's your crown jewels, where's your intellectual property? I mean I have source code at Snap I want want anybody ever getting access to. Except that pretty guys have access to it today even in the future
and you let them work on their laptops
I do, I do, we work on the laptops
that's crazy why would you do [xx]take away the clothes and walk away.
Off course,off course.Yeah. They could that why thats why I choose the three guys that I know and that's all I want because I trust them. They have a vested interest, they're stakeholders. And, so that's the difference, right? They are not going to do that, because they would be basically slitting their own throat, and that doesn't make any sense.
They could do it, but that's a risk.
You would be surprised how many people enjoyed bleeding out.
It's just a level of risk that I am aware of, and I am willing to accept..
All right Now do i want, you know, when other developers came on board as consultants, and they needed to do some coding Did I want them to have carte blanche to the whole program and all of our code? Absolutely not. They were not given access to our Amazon servers. They were not given access to our GitHub repository.
All this stuff was, thought about and calculated as level of risk, and sometimes it cause a lot of administration to do that. My one single threaded developer would sometimes just have to push code for four or five people.
Whats going to happen when GitHub, a cloud based repository of probably trillions of dollars worth of code is hacked?.
Well that's yeah that's always the concern but that's, that's the blue ocean mentality, right? Right, you are not the securing the people devices, you are securing the data in the home. I don't want to be a dead horse, but like to ride the dead horse. Yeah. With no name and a desert [sp?]. And it has nothing to do with devices, nothing to do with the data, but the, now again there two, that's a good point, if get hub [sp?] was hacked in other code was released.
When lets change it up, when [xx] [xx] its matter of time. Yeah Well, its necessary to report did you hear about this, That they were saying that, some security analyst from [xx] there is basically two categories that the companies are run in US, those that know, they have been hacked by the Chinese and those they don't.
There is no other doubt. Yeah. I could tell a was hacked by the Chinese because suddenly Google didn't work for me. So, sales force since we spoke last has released an update to chatter to indicate who is in influence In your organization. So what I suggested at the beginning of the year would take 2 years to come in to the enterprise showed up on July 20th.
Thoughts? Yes so influences was a big topic right now in fact I just met a guy yesterday, who was on big topic now I mean big topic for you and will be talking about it just because of, how can you look at all these dad and not say someone's gonna measure you on it.
Well that's exactly right, this company that's doing it very well proably [xx]telligence they havn't yet launched but you know with their dealing is pretty interesting it really does comes down to The big day that thing, has become so big, right? it is so..how do you say, you can't categories something Categorically
Yeah!
that's how it say. I am categorically. But you could say not categorically, but that does not sound good.
yeah! thanks for the English lesson I am in higher, and rocking how.
[xx] let me spell ..but the reality is that the [xx] now can actually have initialize in such a way it can learn the tribal effects how people not only influencing that data but The once we are actually we seeding the depth. Is a peace of the technology where she working on smack it socially including its become so huge.
So we've built some analysis to kinda understand social behaviour a little bit and it's interesting. recruiters don't want somebody who's necessarily posting a lot of stuff on social media about their skills what they'd rather say, what's bigger gold to them is someone who post comments on other people's blogs or answers questions on forums or or or you know ask question about the way .So this,the the global you know, information producers, this information the swimmers but in between there is an agement cloud a people who actually breathe the stuff produced and and interact in question.
Yeah, I just wrote a blog about that called You're Suffering from Consumption.
Yes.
And my point is, I follow a lot of people who obviously don't read anything they tweet. And it's so obvious they're not reading anything they're tweeting because if you click on their links, it takes you to something that has eight pages. One, you're obviously not Inside Out Thinker, because you would have posted the print version, right, the put it all on one page.
Two, you didn't check the link on a mobile device before you tweeted it, because the first thing that happens is that it gives you a pop-up ad, right? So, and you just posted 13 articles in two minutes. You're not Steve Austin, you didn't read all of that, right?
Right.
So, who are you fooling? Right? If you actually want to understand and be influential, observe. Observe the world around you.
Yeah.
Because then the article you just tweeted that's about seven hours old, doesn't make you look ridiculous. I think the word for today should be recoculus.
Recoculus?
Yeah. Speaking of data I just signed up for something called LifeNaut. Have you heard of LifeNaut?
No this is non-my-reputation kind of thing.
It's kind to beyond reputation. So basically the concept is, this is proof of concept that one day mind=life a person may be able to use an animate that person's conciousness from their mind-life file. So basically you go to LifeNaut, like astronaut, lifenaut, N-A-U-T. You sign up to LifeNaut. You put in all this information about you, and they start to use their algorithms to reproduce you.
So when you're not online, you're still talking for you, or your algorithm is still talking talking for you.
That's awesome.
Yeah. So how long until send my life not to work?
Yeah.
Now. I can send my LifeNaut to work now because what most people people do at work is about as intelligent as the LifeNaut algorithm.
Yeah, that's a little insane.
It's happening, I mean.
I think it goes, you know. It's actually one it's when I give this speech on big data that I've been going around giving. One of the pieces of it is authenticity and one of the biggest problems I see with big data is that you can build things like that, like not, and have something that's out there, completely non-authentic.
Yeah.
Propagating all this additional content.
It's kind of like the Yelp thing, when Yelp got busted because restaurants could hire 40 college interns to just go put crazy updates and postings and recommendations on their restaurant on Yelp.
But we're beyond having to hire college students.
Yeah .
There are algorithms creating news now. I mean, I'll put a link in the show notes. Most news that you read is created by algorithms scraping together news pieces; people don't realize how fast. I have a whole Pinterest page called "A Robot Could Do Your Job." Just think of all these things that humans used to do, that I mean, they're not what we think of as robots.
"Can I help you" or Rosie the robot. Although, I always wanted Rosie growing up. Forecast it.
But i am, but if you describe what these algorithm still in He just like the fact there was medal in his apron. you know. Seriously. Medal and apron gets me every time. I don't know. I don't know. Anything else, what have you got here? Anything else, anything crazy? Talk to me, make me happy. So there was this one post that I saw from Michael Craigsman [sp?]. Who hates me, by the way.
Does he? Yeah, absolutely hates me. I don't know. I mean He's a Boston guy. I have reached out to him a few times, he never responded so.
Yeah, good luck.
Whatever, I'm not worried about it. Content has actually been pretty good for the most part but he did do this thing on HDI that I read. I saw it it tweeted by Roy Atkinson and then I read it. And it was talking. About the consumerization and impact of IT and it was a decently written article until it got the point of where you need to think about this in the aspects of cloud.
And then it completely went into if you were a company, you need a cloud strategy, and I was just like, no, this isn't working for me and I was a little aggravated because I had to be an IHGI member to leave a comment and I'm not anymore. Because it took my money and never had and learn how to optimize it.
But will they, but is cloud the problem? Cloud is not the problem. Cloud is not the risk to IT. Cloud is not the risk to the consumerization of IT.
You know what the risk to IT is?
IT.
New stories about the risk to IT. Are more risky to IT shops, than anything you could do. Having one person read a piece of crap and then come in and tell all the co-workers about this FUD and then all those co-workers go and tell. And you spend about two weeks, three meetings and seven hundred hours in email to discuss something that happened three years ago, which you think might affect you tomorrow, when you don't have a job there.
Stop creating crap !
It is a risk that is completely unfounded. I think the problem i'm seeing with companies that have what I say more traditional IT in place is that they don't understand that there's an. sitting on the other side of the wall, saying, "How do I get rid of IT, cause these guys are completely useless" you know it is a little bit you know so i have been enjoying reading James [xx] book but its a little bit funny some of the .....he does to gramatise a little The business people on your hate rite.
I know what happens in organizations [xx] wrong, but its not a tempo i think they are trying to how do I drive this business outcome and one per cent out of the wall are saying, well I have the capacity and the data center to do that and I need 7 forms of change control and the guys sitting there saying, well I could actually go to you know data.com and have this up and running in] 20 minutes.
How do you think about all these articles that talk about this art types of people who IT.
I finally realised what was going on after reading a lot of, I've been kinda studying greek tragedy lately, only because I have to understand by life better. but, I realize all these character types are really just projections of IT people. You brought up a really good point. I've never actually met someone in the business, who actually had that much disdain for IT.
These are projections of people's ugly sides.
Yeah.
They go out, they hear a little something from somebody. "Oh, it's really hard to go through the IVR system to find help." They come back and turn in into, "Oh my gosh, she called the help desk and they chopped off her hands and abducted her child."
Yeah.
Somewhere between the user telling us something and us communicating it to the actual people in IT, it goes from, you know, cockroach to sasquatch.
Yeah.
In like 30 seconds.
Yeah.
And I don't know if IT people are just the biggest drama queens that ever existed, or that we have so many people in IT who were actually supposed to be in marketing, but marketing was overcrowded so we took IT jobs because they were easier, that, you know, we're all big story tellers. Something happened on the way to the forum.
Yeah. You know, what I see in a managing a lot of the technical talent that I have is that you have this this really bright person, who all of a sudden finds this inner satisfaction of creativity when they design something or they build a system or they create an application or they create code that does something.
They're like, yes, this is like adrenaline to them. This is like cocaine. Creation is adrenaline to anyone. This is a human trait.
Anybody.
Yeah, this is a human trait.
And then you ask them to go fix the thing they created, it's like you demoralize them. You tore them apart. I see this at Smack sometimes, it's like.
Because imagine if I said to you, your daughter needs a better haircut, right? You can't just tell people to do that. I think, you know, I think again you are hitting on a really brilliant point, how do you at Smack, deal with ego and creationism.
Yeah, you know, it's a.
How do you do it?
We 're little bit more intimate here, so occasionally, you know, like Jeremy will send me something on Skype like, hey, check this out. He'll send me an email, and there's an issue with Smack right now that it takes a few minutes for the email to come. It's not as real time as it need to be. And so I'll tease him like would love to.
I actually use smack and I can't read that right now.
Yeah.
So you
Yeah kinda like I can tease you about Seven Up
Yeah so it's like, yeah, I know it should be fixed. And I know that should be there. So, we are a little more intimate here that we can joke around with each other about what's broken. Or you know when he all excited about something you know well a kind of take him down a notch or whatever, or you know but in a good just-full way.
But I think in more traditional IT organizations, the way that I would have handled that before was, is to upfront ask them, when this is finished, how do we support it, you know how are we going to respond to these requests, you know, reminding them that this is gonna be broken. Reminding them that we are not gonna test this as we think we are going to test this.
Reminding them that they don't have all the answers and that the business is probably going to change their mind. So, let's get ready for that now. And, let's think about that now. We used a an elicitatation process.
Have you given Jeremy the toools as a leader and a mentor to be able to handle that type of feedback? I mean I know you are a very intimate organization, but are there other strategies that businesses can actually use, when working with anybody, because we're all creationists. We all create things, whether it's a Word document or a piece of code.
What do you do as a leader and a mentor, Matt, to really enable people to handle the hard facts about something?
It goes right back to what we opened the show with. Problems are going to happen. I get very frustrated that something goes wrong or something's not designed right even though we'll talk about it and talk about it, it's just not done right. And it's frustrating and it's aggravating, but you have to step back and say okay, we're in this together, so I can't get angry.
We need to just step back and say okay, and so we use daily scrums. Every day at 4 o'clock, my team gets together. We get on the phone, 15 minutes we're through, what we did, what we're doing Issues we swamp up the scram in a we probably stand in a next thirty forty five minutes. Just catch you up on whats going up on the world with the each other.
And, that's the communication aspect. There's that, hey, we're all in this together. And, yeah, I have been running code but I've been on the road all day meeting with investors. Trying to demo the product that broken, so, you might have pain and frustration because the I have scripts now working, I got the hidden frustration because of the job scripts now working.
Because he was doing back room with the lights off I was standing in front of twelve people. You know, not understanding is very helpful to them because he can the heads down program is very going young young young going like. He can forgets some times about the all [xx] now about the impact of what,now its my job is to to lead a pause and remind him that his creative powers can... produce good or evil.
When he does good, it's rewarded, and when it doesn't work so well, it's reminded to him, yeah, you said that last Monday you were going to actually have that finished.
Hopefully, all this will start to sort itself out, because as we as digital citizens start to create more content and this content starts to almost take on a life of its own, even people who don't write code are going to start to see the effects of, let's just take the podcast, for instance. I was at the [xx] yesterday, a guy comes up to me and says, I listen to you guys all the time and I'd love for my wife to meet you.
All right? The show has taken on a life of it's own. Right?
Yeah.
So, I can't control the show's life. All I can do is hope when I'm doing the show to steer it in the direction. I think it's going to be interesting as these forms of near organic digitality that we've spawned into the world, whether they're code or pieces of content that people interact with, come home and become teenagers, and we have to say, wow!
I never saw that coming Speaker1: Its funny you know, just a quick anecdote or story about what you just said. so, you know I've been doing some consulting at a pharmaceutical company. Got to pay the bills. Got to pay the bills, kid's got to eat. So, we're doing a footprint implementation and I am actually pretty much in depths of the thing I mean I am running escalation roles, I'm creating the form design.
Nice, nice. I'm like in the [xx]. It wasn't what they brought me as a consultant in to do, but it just needs to get done and I'm the type of person,I'll roll up my sleeves and do it. yep, so the few folks at the, so, J Martin who I am working with as compliance partners. listens to the show. And, he was kind of telling the other guys about the show.
Hey, guys listen to the show, it's funny. We take ITS into a different level, so if you're going to this is a show. They went back to Jay and said, does Nat feel bad that he's doing the footprint stuff? Because if you need him, and all this kind of stuff. I was looking at him, like are you kidding me.
this is - do I get up in the morning and go yes! I'm going to write some quick tasks and footprints? No. The tools it choose powerful in wax in some some some grease to add especially portfolio design,but anyways you do it you do it You look you look the out come of it and i am not going do it because because you know its like i said its not some thing else can do should you know, this company is growing, they are a great team, they are exiting to work with, they are trying to hire like a 100 sales people as a part of the get set the A crew, this is just..
so exciting to see that energy. I want IT to win. I want this department to deliver a solution to the HR department that can on board people and things can get deployed quickly. It's just when you step and you look at like, hey we can make a difference for instance how people could actually perceive and consume the services from IT, you know, that's what makes you just bite down and bear it and you push through and you figure this stuff out.
But it's interesting, the show has show continues to take on a life of it's own which is great. The other shows are doing good. I have to admit though, I listen to The Top of The World and they hopefully will go they way that AntiPidean [sp?] did, which is the first few shows were so ITSM focused.
AntiPidean [sp?] is finally the blind doc will become more bubbly and into more personality show which i am liking i hope it will happen with the top. a world edition. You mean the rest of the world edition with the guys that are doing great. You can't look at the rest of the world UK edition, top of the world Nordic edition, or andividian edition.
World edition in our show. Even though they all fall under the same moniker, there is absolutely nothing I like about them. nothing, Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker2: And I will continue to create and continue to put these shows on the air anywhere I can on the Globe, because no one is.. It gonna give average IT person a voice, no one. And until we can wrestle power back and have a own occupied service maintain movement. We don't have a hope.
Yeah it has a good point. I think we should brainstorm a little bit about how people can have a voice on it, you know its. I enjoy and love when there's listener feedback like right now on Twitter there's a few people listening to the show. Bryan Hollinsworth being at ITSM. Bryan, is listening to live broadcasts.
That's cool. Right? I love that, I love that there. They are engaging there shouting out. I would love to the see some of the brands do that you know i love the brands to be telling us the news they wanna share with the audiences. We go out looking for the news. And, you said this a million times.
One, who has to dig into some of the news, it gets feed to you a little bit more than it does to me. It is impossible to be defined. Its impossible to find breaking news in the ITS M space. There are companies out there that i am subscribe to whole bunch out of newsletter and to be pick on Jules Montgomery at Plexent.
You know, I get these things from Plexent all the time, but I'm sure at some point that there's something that they, you know It's beyond their idle training or whatever they wanna share with the world. They should be open to sharing that with us, dishing that to us. So, you know, I don't think any of us have Had any preservation's about taking you know, true breaking news something of interest to the audience?
Yeah, we had couple of breaking, we will broken some news. I can think of three or four things off the top of my head. But again people need to focus, if they listen to the show, if they don't listen to the show, and if they listen to the show and they just want to share information with someone focus on making the world around you better.
And, if that means pushing an agenda, if that means talking a thing about your product that's fine. But, people don't allow yourselves to become billboards for the organizations you work for. I think one of the things that's difficult for me is some organisations that we would like to get news from and some of the people who work for them you know they They just turn into Billboards.
The other day I kind of tweeted out you know, if you got hired to just become a digital billboard, for your business, save your self a lot of hassle. Strap on a sandwich board, stand outside of a sandwich shop, and say $5 burgers inside. You'll have a lot less stressful job. You will be home earlier.
If you're going to be a digital sign, just do it with a lot less stress..
That's not the way to market your product [xx]. Unfortunately so many people think "If I become this big advocate, this evangelist for my product" You know what I'm an evangelist for? People, I believe and I evangelize people. You can too. I hate people. I actually hate them too, but this is actually my therapy program that I actually get over that hate.
I'll be back and Tim will be back in two weeks. Google hangouts has cured our inability to actually interact with humans. Who would have thought three years ago that we'd be stream this things live to you tube.
That's fantastic.
It is good. It's not horrible. We will see you in 2 weeks, hopefully we will have that lady from Yale on, and I think 2 weeks after that we're looking for 'da da da dum!'
Well we have to wait and get confirmation have to wait and get the exact date but that will blow people heads off. Hope?
Yes . It's been real.
Thanks, Chris, good show. You're the best, great show. Thanks everybody for listening tune in. Alright, I'm going to end the broadcast see you later. Mail [sp?], out.
This was ITSM Weekly. Thank you for listening. For more information about this podcast and ITSM news go to ITSM Weekly.com COMMENT: There is no text, nobody is speeking, there is just music!
ITSM Weekly, the podcast bringing you news, insight analysis, and information from the world of IT service management. Your hosts, Matthew Hooper, Chris Dancy, and Matt Beran. IT Service Management Weekly the Podcast starts now. Welcome to ITSM Weekly, the podcast, episode 93. How are you doing, Hoop?
Good. '93. '93. I feel so old. You think? Yeah. Maybe it's because I turned 40 recently. Did you? When was that, did miss your birthday? You did, yeah. Sorry about that. That's all right. Are you 40 even? 40 even; I'm even 40. So, lots to catch up on. Last week we had our guest and we really didn't have a chance to catch up on all the news that we had for all the fine things.
We were supposed to have a young lady by the name of Adrianne who is from Yale University on this week, but things just didn't work out, she's going to come on next week so we have to put her off I thought this would be a good time for you and I to catch up on some news, all sorts of news and gossip.
Awesome. As well as, you know how we keep sneaking Mark Zuckerberg, he comes on whenever whenever we're not actually recording he shows up, he's like "hey put me on the air" you know we're going to [xx] time have the sponsors of tomorrow coming up on a show. So I won't say who but I'm sure you smart, marketing savvy people can figure out sponsors of tomorrow.
What do you think about that Hoop? I think it's awesome. I love big name guests. Yes, and they love us apparently. They do. Of course. We're leaving innovation here in the ITSM space. Yes. And it's not because we're awesome, it's just because the bar's so stinking low. Yeah. If service management were limbo, you would have to be a parapalegic.
Im one of those creepers. Weve got a lot to catch up You don't even know what a creeper is do you? No. I just assume it's some type of hooperism. No. A creeper is something that they have in mechanic shops. you know in garages. Oh. So that you can lay down and you can slide under the car. You know in Grease right before the scene for grease lightning they all come out on the sleepers - creepers - creepers or sleepers?
- creepers - Is there ever a reason you would be on your stomach on a creeper? Yeah you'd have to always face up. - Yeah cause you are working on the The underbody of the car. If you put a hole where your face would be on a creeper and you lay it on your stomach, it could also act as a massager and you could flip the car upside-down below ground.
Oh, brother. Remember those old rafts where they use to have the whole all cut off your face so your kids get actually book in the wire no it happens the stuff no so that i cannot swim so that yeah.... isn't it? So I think the episode with Mr Willis there seemed explosively exciting people talking about Dev Ops.
Yes, yeah, a great guest. Interesting fellow. I've enjoyed watching. That's great, I don't know how to turn this phone off. answer the phone during the podcast. That seems to work. That's exactly what I want to do. That's fine for me. You know So I didn't, so I've been following @bacciagalupe, did we ask him how to say it?
No, I'm too embarrassed to. So, I have, yeah I've been following him for a while on twitter. here, honestly I did not pay that much attention to his staffs, he is always that kind of creepy [xx] very kind of [xx] avatar. He still does. We call that the Stevie Chambers effect. Yeah, yeah. Like Stevie Chambers.
In fact, when I first started following [xx] My wife asked me to stop because it was creeping out the kids on the Twitter stream. you know, if your wife and kids are close enough to see your Twitter stream, I think that might be an issue in itself. You want to get on t.v? I check Twitter Phone, laptop, television.
Do you check smap for Twitter? So I've not checked Twitter directly because of using smap. Well you don't have to speaking of Smack, any news in the Smack world? We need a smack sound effect. yeah it is a mall we are super products to the cuthoders and keep on the south industry yeah tell i think help needed.... Nice.
Because they're just, they are just constantly searching for skill sets, they're searching for job opportunities, its a predictable kind of analysis that we can do on the social mining in the e-mail. Nice. So it allowed us to get to market with a little bit more focused, and kind of show the capability of the tools because we're trying to serve a lot of masters.
And we're ultimately not serving anybody. And we weren't going to have a happen anytime soon. So Barren wasn't a big fan? No. Well, you know, Barren's not here today because he's unplugged from the internet. And I messaged him about Sacca Bayori [sp?] went live to say, Hey, since you're unplugged and tweeting and adding things to the Facebook for Back to ITSM, and sending emails because you're unplugged.
Run it during the podcast anyway. And he said no. That's So apparently unplugged means just me. Yeah, yeah. Just [xx] from me. But that's okay. We won't take it personally, Baron. You won't. Yeah. I made that kid. I feel like Colonel Tom Parkers, kicked in the face. What are you gonna do? Find a new rockstar.
Yeah bigger than life. So what happened oh u got an award or u remain a cto decade or some other seminar or started to take a reality gather to a jack junction smack or what is it.......... yeah, so they wanted me to help take over Yahoo. But with Smack, I just don't have the time. Then, trying to dedicate more time to the podcast actually prepared with show notes.
Don't do that while I'm drinking. I would hate to spit take right during a podcast. So, it's been a couple of nominated, couple of awards, we've won some pitch competitions. You know, start-up life is hard, and this is not the first business I've started so it wasn't that I was taken by surprise by a lot of it.
I'm just really shocked at the level of difficulty it has become in the investment community. In my previous businesses, I never raised funds before. We grew organically and we had, you know, we focused on revenue from customers, but I always had the opportunity to get cash from investors if we had needed it.
And now, even though you hear all the things about Instagram being bought for a billion dollars and all of these different companies being bought for a billion dollars, that is giving the whole start-up scene a, actually a really bad taste for the entrepreneurs, because it's frustrating to walk in with your pitch deck and talk about a, you know, $30, $40, $50 million initial market when these investors are hearing constantly that, you know, there is the 200, 800 billion dollar exit.
And so they are immediately trying to do the math, like "how do I get on the next Instagram? How do I make sure that's where my money's at?" And they're not naive. I mean, they don't think that everything's going to be like that, but it certainly does set a bar that is overly complicated and difficult to [xx] up to.
Yeah. So it's, you know start up life's a . Anybody who runs a business, any CEO. Anybody who's started a business. You've started a business. You've started Service VS.
Yes, I've started a business, but don't you think that a lot of IT people are natural entrepreneurs just because of their IT nature? Doesn't that just make them naturally entrepreneurial, and don't you think they could actually learn a lot by watching start-ups? Even if you're just a sever administrator, just launching start ups in how they function I think could be a great help in helping you be entrepreneurial.
yeah, so I view myself as a leader in some ways. And that I I like to push forward. I'm not always tapped into a box, so, if I if I try to push forward. If it's for my own company, it's entrepreneurial. If it's for another person's company, is it intrapreneurial? I'm good with either one of PLAY have to be honest.
The difficult place for me is as a consultant. Because, I frequently see myself in a circumstance where I am listening to a conversation and I am just shaking my head like this isn't the way leading to success, you know - Wait a minute, I'm on a Hooper episode 83, be fascinated, not frustrated. Yeah, aa no i tried that to be facinited and say no in a other mean that in a opalsilism........ simplified way either.
What I really try to do as a consultant is step back and say, okay, what have have the learnings been for these people? What have the lessons been for these people? What have the leaders bend to these people. In that they are

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