Steve, what are you using to mount the Zoom onto the hot shoe?

Indeed stunning clip and educational to all. Thank you Steve for that! We tested the ZoomH4 (+XLR) and Roland Edirol R-09 (without), prefer R and used it many times on trips with velcron strips on camcorders battery; R has far easier settings and dont get pulled of places by those heavy XLR wiring cables. Seperate sound is ideal also for taking extra ambient sound. Tip if possible always start earlier with voicerecord of rec.#.

Good tip.

Does anyone happen to know if the Canon T1i has external mic support?

I did a quick google and couldn't immediately find anything.

Anyone buy one yet?

I want to work at Zacuto just to play with all the equipment.

Good video and explanations! I have much respect for good audiowork: so many things can go wrong with life sound.

these guys have GEAR....i want :)

PREDATOR --- I call them BULLSHITER all the way,.
Editor, director, producer, predator ----- but go to IMDB -- NONE

Just watched the Vid and found it useful, but was wondering how this device would cope outside in a mild wind, does it come with wind shield and if it does how effective would it be. I suspect that being such a small device the ambient sound outdoors may be an issue!

I just recommended this setup to a friend who is traveling for a documentary (and most likely using a consumer camcorder for much of the shooting). All of the other "local filmmakers" told her that double system audio was a crazy idea and that syncing it would be a nightmare. Perhaps an unwillingness to explore embrace new techniques is why "local filmmakers" stay "local".

Thanks for illustrating this option (and for validating my "crazy" idea).

The Zoom H4n looks like a great solution. I have been using the H4 but this is a definite improvement. However I think if you want more control and have a 2nd person monitoring sound and operating boom then the Edirol R44 is an excellent choice. It gives the functionality of a 4 channel mixer and field recorder in one box and has 4 XLR input. It also gives independent manual switches for controlling each channel. It's bigger but gives that next step up for a bit more money. Great video though and a very nice product.

I've been using a ZoomH4 for over a year now for recording live shows and double sound on my documentaries. Some issues with syncing 24p. I always record .wav 48k. That has helped sync problems. Overall, it's been my favorite piece of equipment. Here's a show I recorded recently. vimeo.com/4896121

the audio quality is undeniable!

realistically, how hard would this process be though for a 1 man operation who is shooting events with hundreds of clips. it seems like a lot of work in post to do synch! and a lot of clapping on the day!

can't deny the advantage of great audio though. very educational. you've seriously made me reconsider my dxa-5d purchase. now it's just a matter of weighing speed over quality.

thanks

Nicely done, very informative. I actually did something similar with a Zoom H2 (which is even cheaper, but no XLR inputs)...I used it with a hard-wired lavaliere mic--the talent put it in her back pocket like a transmitter. Here's an example: vimeo.com/3458417

Michael as what was said good job.
This setup is very easy to do, as we have been doing off camera audio with our FX1's for over 3 years now.

There are so many great affordable ways to capture audio now that there is literally no excuse for a producer to not have great audio content.

We use the Marantz PMD620, Zoom H2, Zoom H4n, and Edirol R44 (which is a 4 track recorder) for our audio capture. Each recorder has it's purpose as the Marantz PMD620 is mainly used for hard wired lav micing or micing a podium using onboard mics for capture. The Zoom H2 is great for use with its onboard mics to capture chamber musicians or vocals. Simply place in the middle of a set of musicians and set to record in 2-Channel or 4-channel mode to capture audio.

The H4n and Edirol R44 are great for more extensive captures where I want 4 channels of recording. The R44 is more extensive, as I use it to run 4 independent audio sources into it, such as board feeds with wireless or hard wired mics etc. The H4n is great for quick setup on a mic stand running 2 hard wired mics into it to mic PA stacks and use the onboard mics to record ambient audio. All of this is recorded to 4 tracks perfectly synced and brought into post for sync with my video, which is easy to do anyway.

BTW a neat trick that I've employed for several years is to setup my recorders to record as needed, then send a wireless feed from the "Line Out" of the recorder, such as R44 or H4n, to my camera for backup sync audio to tape.

Now I can monitor my audio so I know what is being recorded and make any adjustments as needed while recording and have backup sync audio for reference in post.

Take a look at this old setup using the older Zoom H4.
lvptools.blogspot.com/2008/03/here-is-example-of-one-of-my-bare-bones.html

Very useful piece. Thanks for taking the time. We'll implement this with our new D-SLR acquisition. Thanks!

Steve mentioned using a windscreen...I tried a simple foam slip-on, but eventually had a furry ("dead cat") one custom made from Micover (micover.com). I told them the dimensions of the mic area and they made it to fit, for about $25. Its been a godsend for outdoor shooting...

Great work Steve, I learned a lot. Thank you

Did you do any test when shooting in 24p? Does the 99.9% rule still apply or can the h4n only be used in 30p?

Anyone have an answer to Paul's question? I would like to figure out how to take sound with the Zoom H4N while shooting 24p.

J.M. Aragón can you weigh in on this? What are your syncing problems, your workflow?

I am a sound tech. and after having spent much research time comparing the various "pocket" recorders, I found the Zoom H4n to be by far the best value. I know your review was not meant to be a sales video for Zoom, but many of the features were not even touched, and the unit having all of these features are what raises it above the rest of the pack. Micheal L. did a nice job of giving more information, but I would like to elaborate more on the unit.

The built in stereo Mic that has two spread adjustments (90 and 120 degrees). With this one can vary the amount of "width" in the sound field.

The built in stereo mic pair is set in an X-Y coincidental arrangement. This means that it is immune to phasing issues that can arise from spaced mic pairs. Mono compatability is still something to be considered.

If you so choose to not use the built in stereo pair, you can plug in an 1/8" mini plug stereo mic (such as you might have picked up cheap for the dslr). Keep in mind that this does not override the ability to plug two more mics or line inputs into the back of the unit. Now that you know that you can do it, I don't know why you would as the built in stereo pair sounds great!

The inputs on the back are capable of either Balanced XLR or 1/4" phone line input. 48 or 24 volt phantom power is available on the XLR's.

Unique to the Zoom H4a!!! You are able to record to both the onboard stereo pair mics and what ever you have plugged in the back. This means you can record 4 tracks at a time. This is big. Not on any of the others in this price range can this be done! The onboard mics can be capturing ambient sound while the external mics are recording talent. The only other way to achieve this is with a unit as Micheal L. above mention that will cast double the money, be a larger package to tote around and set up.

The unit has an 1/8" stereo mini output that can be used for headphones or feeding another device. This has it's own level control.

It has a large and easy to read display.

It is quite simple to operate and navigate the menus with a menu button and toggle wheel. The previous version (H4) received many complaints about navigation difficulties. Zoom dealt with that.

The mounting whole on the bottom of the unit is 1/4"-20 thread and works with Zaguto's adapter as well as the adapter that comes with the unit which pops right into a mic clip.

There is a built in speaker on the bottom or quick references. It does not function if there is something plugged into the headphone jack, nor while recording.

The unit does come with a foam windscreen which should always be used over the mics when there is any chance of air movement. If you can fit a dead cat over it, this would be better.

The thing runs on 2 readily available "AA" batteries, but if you want to use rechargeables, it has a setting for nickle-metalhydrides. It also comes with and AC adapter.

It has a "stamina" setting to conserve on battery life (this I haven't used yet).

It records to SD cards.

File transfers are very easy! I plug in the included USB cable, the unit asks me if I want to run it as a drive or a sound device, I choose drive and it pops up on my macs desktop where I can drag and drop.

There is an optional hard wired remote for $39.99 that allows one to perform needed functions without sending any mechanical noise through the unit that might get picked up by the onboard mics.

The unit has both a compressor and limiter that can be individually engaged at independent settings.

And for those of you that are also musically inclined, it has 4 track recording/mixing capabilities, a tuner, metronome and effects.

And for those who are still doing VoiceOvers by plugging a mic directly into the computer (you poor souls), the unit can act as an external AD converter. Just plug in quality mic into the XLR, step into the closet and you will have a nice clean signal, avoiding "inside the box" (EMI) noise.

My complaints so far of the unit?
The mics are too exposed. I have already dropped and bent one of the mics (It did not effect functionality though). Zoom, please put a cage around the mics like the Sony.

The input levels do not look to be individually adjustable for the two rear inputs. This could be a problem when one has two talking heads/lav mics and one talks louder than the other.

Now to address the sync issues mentioned earlier... I don't understand why anyone would have any. I work in FCP, so I looked at all my sequence settings and they are already set up as 48k sound files. I just set up my Zoom to record at 48k. I prefer Wave files as they are uncompressed and use 16 bit as that is also the broadcast standard (If I really want/need 24 bit depth, I'll do my audio work in my multitrack audio editor and match up video there).
I would be interested to know why in this tutorial they felt the need to reduce the audio files speed. And even if one did need to do so, I would recommend cutting the audio file to match the length of the associated video file before highlighting and making a percentage reduction.
To line things up, use a clapper as suggested, or any other loud transient and it can be aligned with what comes through on the camera's audio. And if you want to take it a step further. Start the Zoom recording, hold it up in front of the camera and hit record (focus of course) and there is your slate/ audio time burned to video. And don't worry about excess audio recording time, SD is cheap and audio files are small compared to those hulking HD files!

Excellent session and good timing for me to find it. I'm about to work as location mixer/recordist for a short film shot on a Canon 5DII and the director was prescient enough to realize everything these guys just said is spot on without watching this: (a) the sound recorded by the DSLR is not very good, so dual system is a must and (b) a dedicated sound guy is a good idea for real-time monitoring and gain riding, mic placement, etc.

I appreciated when the sound guy said essentially: "you wouldn't shoot the picture with your eyes closed, why would you record the sound without critically listening to it?" Sage words every director should live by!

great review guys... very helpful!

Great, informative video - thanks! Is there a way to mini plug the Zoom H4n directly into the 5D Mark II, as you would with a Rode Stereo mic?

There is actually a really great way to record audio directly to a DSLR. It's called juicedlink.
Check this video:
vimeo.com/5370880

Thanks Mathias - great link - have you personally used the Juicedlink on projects?

very good video!

there is something that i dont understand,
why i cannot plug the H4n directly to the 5d mic in? I mean, why i should do the double system sound?

anyone who knows the answer please tell me

thanks :)

Works great. Been experimenting with this with my Canon 7D over the past couple weeks. Easy in post, too.

Great video, thinking about getting a DSLR (probably the T2i) and make my HV30 my second cam.
One big problem no one seems to talk about is how to view your shots on the set.
If you don't have a laptop, are shooting a scene, and like to check out a shot, do you need to find the file on both the audio recorder as on the camera, and play them both at the same time to get a good overall view how it came out? That makes reviewing your shots even harder than with HDV..

Now the new firmware is announced for the 5d, is there also going to be manual gain control for the 7d and T2i? So, if you don't need the best audio you can use external mics then?

I don't understand why you think you need to slow down the audio once you put it on your timeline. If you're capturing the audio at a sample rate of 48,000 Hz and your video project's audio sample rate is set to 48,000 Hz, it should line up regardless of the frame rate. 48,000 samples = 1 sec no matter which way you slice it. The only time that the framerate will affect your audio is when you have an audio device that is slaved to timecode. In this case, the audio device is completely independent so the audio should line up as long as you are using the same audio sample rate in your video project as you were using when you captured the audio.

Thanks for that guys

what about shooting in 24p how does the zoom h4n sync?

Thank you for that! very useful. BUT:
H4N mounted on camera is bullshit! The handling noise is just way too annoying!

A couple of points which may sound a bit nerdy:

Zoom H4 did have sync issues, all cleared up with H4n.

Zoom H4n does not have line level input on XLRs - a -30dB pad fixes that.

Shooting with a JuicedLink is very nice, but the Canons record audio at 44.1 rather than 48. If you record on a Zoom or Edirol at 24/96, there's a lot more headroom to play with (equalise loud and quiet sounds, general high quality that's audibly better than DV audio). If you're shooting for the web (nothing wrong with that) Juiced is fine. If you're going through a big PA, go Zoom - switching from 16/48 to 24/96 is like going from DVD video to uncompressed.

I'd agree that the Edirol R44 is a much nicer unit to work with in a pro setting. The Zoom is more 'prosumer' - plasticy feel, slow to boot, short battery life with Phantom Power engaged, bulky. If only Edirol expanded their R09-HR to use mini-XLRs - would prefer that to the Zoom range. I used the R09-HR with Rode M3 and Procaster mics as well as standard line level feeds with great success. Just the lack of Phantom Power let it down over the Zoom.

But... I'll be getting a JuicedLink because I want to do voxpops with a DSLR. The Zoom is great for indies, but the JuicedLink is good for run-and-gun audio.

Dont forget that PluralEyes requires a good camera soundtrack to work from in order to work its magic - you'll need a Rode videomic or something on-camera to improve on the built-in mic.

Of course, there comes an 'oh sod it' moment when you ditch the videomic & Zoom & PluralEyes 'fix it in post' process and go with the JuicedLink - and I'm about to hit that wall.

Good discussion on DSLR audio. Canon took a step in the right direction with the new 60D adding manual audio gain, but you still can't actively monitor it. Oh well, guess I should just go get an AF100.

There are many questions here regarding Double System audio with the Zoom H4n and a Canon DSLR. This is a very good workflow and provides the best of both worlds and a back up audio track that can be used as a primary audio without having to sync in post in some cases. However, the Zoom H4n output is Line Level and needs to reduced to Mic level with a -25db pad cable. Sescom makes a couple of nice ones, including one that has a headphone monitoring jack.

Sescom -25 db pad cable: bit.ly/i4CxKL
Pad cable with headphone jack: bit.ly/eoND64

what about plugging a rode videomic into a Zoom ???

I thought this video was really lacking in information and doesn't match the reality of a lot of DSLR shooter out there. The Zoom H4n is a great device for a very good price, Zacuto gear is overpriced. $200 for the knob to connect the zoom to the shoe mount is 66% of the price of the Zoom. What is also really missing is how do you mount the zoom on-cam with a shotgun? Weird.

this was helpful like the 99.9 percent to sync audio. I learned something :)

dead helpful! Thanks!

Thanks for emphasizing the importance of sound, I don't have much for sound equipment, but I,m working on it.

Here is a good example of a DSLR clip with a zoom h4n recording ;)
vimeo.com/25518652

Awesome video thank you for the great help!!!!