Forums / General Discussion / Restrictive Terms and Conditions

If I recall correctly, the company owning most sites like this involve owning your uploaded content. At least here, you get the releif that everyone is nice and would not sell your content or anything of the sort.

if you don't like it, you can always create your own site for hosting. Its standard fare.

the problem I could see with the TOS is that, if enforced (typo and all) then it would remove the awesome works of the teens (like the aussie posse) and any family-related clips.

"Furhter, you expressly warrant and represent that all persons in any visual depictions you submit were at least 18 years of age when said visual depiction was created."

"aussie posse"... that made me laugh before 8am...nice.

That sucks anyway.

Hmm... reading that didn't really worry me, like it normally would, because I agree all the Vimeo crew are really cool folks. Is it a liable reason? Besides, I'm pretty sure its standard on most sites. But you know, if Jake and the crew wants to use Grandma as their new Vimeo Mascot, I'm down for it!! hahah!!

round of applause for calling them the aussie posse. someone should message tina and tell her.

thanks :D i know they troll these forums and will spot it eventually :D

ready,fire,aim life will still go on.

When I post something online at Vimeo or wherever, I believe I'm putting it in the public domain. I mean, that's what's happens anyway, right? Once you've posted something, you have no more control of it. Which, of course, means that Vimeo doesn't have any control of it either. Vimeo can say that they own it, but the reality is: once you've "broadcast" something on the web, nobody owns it (or everybody does). So, Vimeo can say "we own your stuff" if they want, but in my case, where I consider (and will say) that what I post online is in the public domain, I think that's meaningless. musanim.com

I agree with Musanim . Bits are free . I prefer think that everybody owns everything . But nobody owning nothing is good too ... Anyway if I find out that vimeo is making money with my movies I SUE THEM (and then go back home to learn to read a contract:)

hahaha.... I hate the words "term" and "condition"...and I completely agreed with musanim

Yes, the internet is fast becoming simply public domain, although there is a huge difference between issuing something into public domain and unknowingly relinquishing ownership of a work. There is no legal reason why Jakob needs to assume ownership of your clips, and in some countries (like Australia) I'm pretty sure IP rights do not fall within the bounds of regular property right and cannot be assumed unless the owner gives their explicit instruction to do so.

As for assuming ownership being the norm for internet sites, check out the following:

Vimeo:
"You agree that when you send a Submission via this Website, it becomes the sole property of Connected Ventures, LLC"

by contrast, YouTube:
"For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions"

Flickr:
"Yahoo! does not claim ownership of Content you submit or make available for inclusion on the Service."

Google Video:
"Do I retain copyrights and other legal rights to my video?
Yes. You retain all rights to your content. Google assumes no copyright to your material."

Photobucket:
"Photobucket.com claims no ownership interest in the images posted by you at Photobucket.com."

jumpcut.com:
"User's retain ownership of the content submitted."

revver.com:
"You, your licensors or other third party providers, as applicable, own all intellectual property rights in and to your Content. Revver shall not acquire any right, title or interest in or to such."

VideoEgg.com:
"VideoEgg does not claim ownership of your Content posted, transmitted or otherwise made available by you via the Service."

Even MySpace doesn't assume ownership of content, only a licence:
"By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content, messages, text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, profiles, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") on or through the Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com, a non-exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and through the Services."

Sites need you to grant such a licence in order to even host your content, but as for assumign ownership, something immoral is certainly going down, so I sent Jakob a message with most of the above info.

Don't get me wrong, I think Vimeo is the best place on the web for hosting video, but stealing IP rights is just low.

i've always figured that it depends on how big the corporation is and how much they feel they have to cover their asses for actionable issues.

i am not a lawyer but from the discussions i've seen about this in the past--they own that version of the file, not the origination or outside use of it.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I have read a little bit on IP rights, and this --"we shall exclusively own all now-known or hereafter existing rights to the Submissions of every kind and nature throughout the universe" -- means the copyright of the work in its entirity.

I've got no problem with Vimeo copying video and making money of it, but that can be achieved with a licence, similar to the ones users grant other hosting sites. However, if I want to enter something into a short film competition and can't because I no longer own the rights, that's when I wonder why all the other video sites manage with their users still retaining IP rights.

It appears that the "all your content are belong to us" terms have been yoinked (yay!), though there doesn't seem to be a "What's yours is yours" section just yet.

Wow, I had been checking back on this site everyday thinking that Jakob has just ignored my email, never thinking to actually check the terms and conditions, but yes, it appears evident that Connected Ventures, LLC no longer assumes ownership of content.

I'm not surprised that there's no "What's yours is yours" section yet, but not because there won't be; these things need to be looked over by lawyers and such, and probably take a lot of time and effort, so even seeing such an immediate change is awesome.

Anyway, here's to Jakob for changing the terms!!

Bravo :)!

this wasn't a case of public domain use... the original line means that they have not only the right to use your content (standard) but actually own it.
"You agree that when you send a Submission via this Website, it becomes the sole property of Connected Ventures, LLC"

What does this mean? Well... you post a video here, someone offers to buy it from you for a huge amount of cash. Connected Ventures LLC sees THEIR video making money without THEIR permission. Lawyers enter, they have every right to sue. Something to watch out for on any media storing site. Even Apple's .Mac had that clause for a short time.... it's nasty.

I'm pleased to see this ownership issue is no longer part of the T's and C's. I'll stay.

Creative Commons

Of course, by claiming ownership of your intellectual property, CV would probably have to somehow prove that you agreed to the transfer of copyright before you began using the site. In most instances, two parties can't enter into a contract when only one of the parties actually knows about the contract. If you have to click an "I Agree" button when you sign up for a vimeo account and there's a clear link to the terms and conditions you are agreeing to, that's one thing and can be easily tracked and a follow-up email sent to the user which shows that both parties have agreed. Simply stating terms and conditions on some page that doesn't necessitate some sort of indication of acceptance is probably unenforceable.

See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_of_adhesion#Shrink_wrap_contracts

By the way, by reading this comment, you agree that I now own all your stuff.

Hey everyone. I apologize for not getting involved in the discussion.

BASICALLY: we had to rush terms up for legal reasons. The terms have since been revised; I apologize for any alarm. Neither Vimeo nor its parent company assumes ownership of your videos.

That's ok, Jakob. We were pretty sure you weren't evil. Especially with that new hair cut.

another reason why vimeo is the best

hehe, reminds me of the billy bragg shennanigans on myspace. Rupert Murdoch is one man I wouldn't trust, but they got rid of their licensing issues too.
myspace.com/billybragg

Yeah, I saw he bought out MyPoop. He keeps getting closer to RULING THE WORLD!!!! MUAHAHHAH!!!

A year since this was discussed but the Terms & Conditions remain the same:

All materials contained in this Website are the copyrighted property of Connected Ventures, LLC.
...
All materials in this Website shall only be used for personal, non-commercial purposes. You may view material from this Website for your own use and may download only one copy of any materials on any single computer for your personal, non-commercial use only, and you must keep all copyright and other proprietary notices attached to the downloaded material.

Any and all forms of duplication, reproduction, distribution, publication, modification, uploading, posting, copying or transmission of material from this Website is STRICTLY PROHIBITED unless you have obtained the prior written consent of Connected Ventures, LLC. The material covered by this prohibition includes, but is not limited to, any written text, graphics, logos, photographs, audio, or video material on the Website.

You are also strictly prohibited from creating works or materials that are derived or are in any way based on the materials contained in this Website(...)

This is a service I won't be using... Too bad I gave my mail to be able to post a comment here.

So what's the final verdict? Vimeo owns everything posted on the site? I can't believe such a thing to be true. Can anyone elucidate?

What about this: "All materials contained in this Website are the copyrighted property of Connected Ventures, LLC."

I guess if there was an mention of something like "you retain your content's rights" it would clear things up considerably.

I read the whole thing and it doesn't say anything about the content ownership or rights of the vimeo users. Or have I missed it somewhere?

I agree, we need a clear 'you retain ownership of your content, and by uploading only license it to us for x & y use' clause in the terms. I'm new here and I've got a really good impression of the site so far - but I'd like to see this addressed.

The current terms look less ridiculous than the earlier ones, but it appears to me that Vimeo still assumes ownership of your content. I really like Vimeo so far, and I would like to stay, but I will seriously consider switching to a service that lets me keep copyright (blip.tv, revver, etc).

I'm very keen to know current status of the ownership of the content I put here. The licence agreement is not changed. It still says that I give up my rights when uploading something to Vimeo. At least it said so yesterday when I uploaded.

I read Blakes comment "You retain ownership of your videos, we just have a license" but thats not what the licence agreement says. It sais:

"All materials contained in this Website are the copyrighted property of Connected Ventures, LLC. "


/bettina

Why not do what flickr does, and let users copyright their work they way they like?

I was considering using vimeo but until this changes I'm not.

Glad I read this thread before I uploaded anything worth having. Until Vimeo disclaims any copyright to uploaded content & specifically states that the creator/uploader of the content retains copyright I won't upload any more videos here.

If youtube can do it....

I have read the terms and conditions carefully several times over. While there is a clear statement that says vimeo claims copyright to all material on the website including video content, there is no specific statement within the text that clearly states that I maintain any rights to the videos I've created and uploaded at all. Further, once uploaded and copyright has supposedly changed hands, the terms and conditions then limit and restrict the further use of the video, even going so far as to restrict it's use for derived works or even being uploaded to other websites by me.

If I've missed something or am not understanding something clearly I'm certainly open to having that pointed out to me, I realize that I could be wrong and honestly hope that I am. I really like this site and would much rather take part here than anywhere else on the web, but these terms and conditions seem like a very slippery slope.

Eugenia, three months ago you called for clarification of the terms and conditions. Obviously something has changed in your mind from then until now. Have you received such clarification from vimeo & if so could you please share it with the rest of us?

I agree with M.Allen Taylor

"If I've missed something or am not understanding something clearly I'm certainly open to having that pointed out to me, I realize that I could be wrong and honestly hope that I am. I really like this site and would much rather take part here than anywhere else on the web, but these terms and conditions seem like a very slippery slope"

I would also like to use vimeo for my videos. They are not proffessional yet. But I do have plans to make some of my living from filmproduction. And as it is now...I will only use vimeo for party stuff.

Could you please clearify what we are missind and what paragraph that says we still own our pictures.

/b

Thanks - I'm very happy to hear that!
I would really like to use Vimeo without any concerns about copyright. As a brew house, a greenhouse... for ideas and skills….a playground with a touch of seriousness that cannot be established without change of copyrights terms.


Than

Thanks for the update dalas, but thats been said for quite a while...please update this thread when you have actually changed them.

Why not introduce a flickr style licensing system? That would be perfect.

Hi guys, former stage6er here. I'm in the process of migrating here since you seem to be the best alternative, but when I read the TOC I got a bit worried. I look forward to the promised TOC update since informal assurances in the forums doesn't mean much when the formal wording still implies that Vimeo owns my videos. Until that happens, I'm keeping my better work off of Vimeo.

Besides that, I've been really impressed with the site and community so far. I hope this place stays classy (my biggest problem with stage6) and has a sustainable business model!

I've heard that Photoshop Express had the same kind of "owner/copright-overtaking-licence agreement". They say they have changed their rules now. But to be frank - I do not understand what they are trying to tell me at their termspage.

On Vimeo you still say: "All materials contained in this Website are the copyrighted property of Connected Ventures, LLC".

Please!

/bettina

Of course, I can feel free to post non-commercial stuff I don't care about owning. But that's not applicable in my circumstance.Add to all this the restriction on commercial content, and

Vimeo is a no-go for me. In fact, I'm going to have to pull all the videos off the site and get all our colleagues to do the same. Thanks for clarifying these horrendous (and NOT industry-standard) TOCs.

Please could the Vimeo staff state clearly and categorically in their Terms & Conditions what the situation is concerning their ownership or non-ownership of copyright of members' videos? I'm a professional artist/writer and have just joined Vimeo because it seems like a good and user-friendly place. While my videos are at the moment only experiments to share with like-minded others, I have no intention of giving away copyright on any of my work. I didn't read the Terms carefully enough, it seems, so please will Vimeo state what the facts are? Without proper legal assurance that we retain ownership and copyright of our videos, I'm afraid I'll be cancelling my membership.

Thanks for replying, Blake. I did read through all the comments here but have to echo what bfrantz said above:
"...I look forward to the promised TOC update since informal assurances in the forums doesn't mean much when the formal wording still implies that Vimeo owns my videos."
I'm sure you guys are bona fide but it seems everyone would be happier if you actually changed the wording in your Terms & Conditions, rather than merely reassuring us in the forum that we retain ownership & copyright of our videos. Legally speaking, T & C must be stated clearly and publically so that there's no need for anyone to check the forum in order to find out what rights they are or are not giving away.

"If you read carefully through this thread you will see that we've answered this question numerous times. You retain ownership of your videos, thats the important part."

Whoever YOU are -- your statement does NOT overrule the Terms. It should not take two years to put one sentence "You retain ownership AND COPYRIGHT of your videos." into a page on any website.

Not inserting this statement into the Terms can only indicate a desire to keep open the possibility of grabbing the rights at some point in the future. Why? Sites are started with the goal of being bought out for huge amounts of money. The acquiring company will pay more for a site with content they get as part of the deal. Let's say someone publishes a video of a not yet famous person. 5 years from now that clip is worth millions. In fact, such a video alone could justify buying a site.

Always follow the money.

people are SO WEIRD. everyone thinks they're going to get famous off the internet and so they're constantly paranoid that a big bad man is gonna rip them off and POOF there goes their only chance at becoming someone important. get over yourselves, your videos are not worth millions of dollars. seriously. if they are please post links, i'd love to check them out. :)

Good that this line of the T&C is gone. If I ever had read it, I never would use Vimeo further. Why? Because it is simply out of the question to take all the right on a particular piece of art from the artist just for hosting it. Never saw such a thing on the whole internet. I even assume that such terms & conditions would be void in Germany... dunno how it is in the US, but here it would be void because it would be against the law. Thanks for wiping it away :D

Fot the moment I've made my decision. I found this statement at Facebook:

"Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content."

I will use Facebook the following months for my ongoing projects.

I pop in later and see when/if you change the terms of use.

/Bettina

this is very disappointing. I have loaded my first, and now last, video here. its a slippery slope, and the above users are correct in holding the line on this one. since vimeo is owned by IAC, i would expect to see no progress on this. past performance is the best indication of future behavior, no matter the good intentions of the original crew.

i will check back, tho...

Guys whats up with the new licence. Even a student could update the licence part faster than you do. There must be a system like the flickr licencing system including creative commons licences. So how long will it take from now on till the change of the terms?

Why did you send the thread back from page one of "General discussion" form? Something to hide?

Update:
Oh it is back again. Pretty weird. Statement of the staff would be nice. And don't tell us something about broken caching of the webserver or other stuff like that.

this is ridiculous now. i think it's obvious that vimeo does not intend to change the terms & conditions and therefor i will no longer upload videos here.
it only takes 5 minutes to modify those few lines from "All materials contained in this Website are the copyrighted property of Connected Ventures, LLC. All trademarks, service marks, trade names and trade dress are proprietary to Connected Ventures, LLC and/or third party licensors. All materials in this Website shall only be used for personal, non-commercial purposes." to "You retain ownership of your videos"

I'm thinking the delay might be due to dealing with slow corporate counsel and then having to get it pushed through a few layers of management.

Just a guess.

The new Terms and Conditions are up and they specify that you retain ownership of your videos.

Please take a look.

vimeo.com/terms

That's great, thanks guys.

Call me crazy, but I read the whole thing. Looks better, thank you. Here is the heart of the matter:

Submissions
Except as otherwise provided herein, any and all comments, suggestions, ideas, graphics, videos, content, data and other information that you transmit to Connected Ventures through the Vimeo Technology (each, a "Submission") shall remain your sole and exclusive property, and you shall be solely responsible for your Submission and the consequences of posting or publishing it. By submitting your Submission to Connected Ventures, you hereby grant Connected Ventures and its successors and assigns a worldwide, perpetual, non-exclusive, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicenseable (through multiple tiers) and transferable license (with a right to create derivative works) to use, copy, transmit or otherwise distribute, perform, publicly perform and display your Submission for any legal purposes whatsoever now known or hereinafter becomes known. You also grant each user of the Vimeo Technology and the Website a non-exclusive license to access your Submission through the Website and to use, copy, transmit or otherwise distribute, perform, publicly perform, create derivative works of, and display your Submission to the extent expressly authorized by the Connected Ventures on the Website and/or in this Agreement. The licenses granted by you in this paragraph in a Submission that is a video terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you remove or delete such Submission from the Website. You understand and agree, however, that Connected Ventures may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of Submissions that have been removed or deleted and that Connected Ventures shall have no obligation to attempt to remove from distribution any of your Submissions that are videos that are otherwise publicly available through the Internet or other publicly accessible medium. The above licenses granted by you in Submissions that are not videos are perpetual and irrevocable.