Forums / Feature Requests

Rotated HD clip rendering

Zach 'Iowa' Hoeken locked this topic on Jul 2, 2009 because the topic is older than 6 months.

tomfrank 3 years ago

I uploaded two test HD video clips that had to be rotated 90 deg. to get the subject matter upright due to the camera mounting. One clip was edited and rotated using WMM (Vista version), and the other using VirtualDUbMod. The former kept the 16:9 aspect ratio, but reduced the size of the video so the longer dimension fit in the vertical height of the normal 1280 x 720 HD horizontal frame orientation (see clip vimeo.com/1542790). The latter did a full size rotation of the 1280 x 720 frame, producing a 720 x 1280 vertical orientation of the longer dimension (see clip vimeo.com/1542874).

When Vimeo rendered these two clips, the former (forced into a 1280 x 720 frame) was detected as HD and rendered as such by Vimeo. The latter, however, was NOT detected as an HD clip, and even though the rendering is MUCH MUCH better in the display size, the HD rendering was not triggered on during Vimeo processing.

VIMEO... can you please implement an "either/or" test of uploaded video so that HD rendering will be triggered if the frame size is either 1280 x 720 or 720 x 1280?

Please?

As an aside, the last few times I've uploaded large videos, I have not had the upload freeze part way through as was almost always the case. Don't know if you've made changes or not, but its so nice to just "set it and forget it' and return later knowing the upload did not freeze up.

4Moorhens2 Plus 3 years ago

I think a video has to have a minimum width of 1280 and an aspect ratio wider than 4:3 to trigger a HD transcoding.

Can be done with VirtualDubMod by resizing and rotating but you will only have an effective picture size of 720 high by 406 wide - the width of 1280 being made up with two 437x720 vertical black (or other colour) bars on either side of the picture (pillarboxed) - it may not look any better than your forced low bit rate WMM version, but if you do give it a go it will be interesting to see what results you get...you could also use the latest ffdshow codec with VirtualDubMod and export in AVI/H.264.

Best of luck.

tomfrank 3 years ago

Yes, I know VIMEO looks for a 1280 x 720 frame size before it triggers HD rendering, and this is the reason for my request. I don't think it has to be only a horizontal widescreen orientation to render in HD... that's just the normal orientation and is likely why they implemented only that orientation. My request is that they change this to look for a vertical orientation of 720 x 1280 as well. I'm hoping VIMEO staff will review and comment (or better yet, implement it.)

I did use ffdshow and H.264 codec to first render the rotation in VdubMod, but the file size grew too large with the bit rate way beyond the source video rate of 4100+ kbps. Both the WMM rotation and the VDubMod rotations have a bit rate of approximately the same as the original source material, so I don't see any reason to go significantly higher. I think shrinking the display first and rotating in VDubMod so it can be fit in a horizontal 1280 x 720 frame size with black borders will yield almost exactly the same thing I ended up with in the WMM rotation.

4Moorhens2 Plus 3 years ago

Did one myself, just to test: vimeo.com/1548126 (don't have any sideways on footage unfotunately) using a video file that I posted on Vimeo a few months ago ( vimeo.com/1002976 ) Original file was a 1280x720 5000 kbps Xvid exported from VirtualDubMod; so I exported from VirtualDubMod again using Xvid encoding at 5000 kbps - using just a single pass for the purpose of this test. Both files are about 20 MB. Should be possible to do the same with ffdshow/H.264 also.

But as you say, the result may be no better than a WMM rotation, however I have retained a 5000 kbps bit rate on my test upload...

Hope the vimeo staff can comment on your request, all the best, 4Moorhens2.

Blake Whitman Staff 3 years ago

these aspect ratios are a very niche case. in the future, we will consider it though.

tomfrank 3 years ago

Blake, I think it's natural for people to want to rotate a video camera, just like they do a point-and-shoot, when they want to get more vertical subject matter in the frame. e.g. this video I just uploaded is a case in point:
vimeo.com/1594998

I will rotate the sideways portion for upright viewing on my local equipment during my editing. People are quickly moving into the HD 16:9 format in home entertainment systems, and video cameras are an integral part of this change. It may seem like a niche issue at this point, but that's changing fast.

Vimeo is great for displaying HD videos... might as well be in the lead with the rotation ability. Gald to hear you will consider this. I'm curious, though... your conversion process correctly sized one rotated test upload I did using VirtualDub editor to do the rotation (see vimeo.com/1542874)... it just didn't trigger HD rendering. What would be required to correct this? Is it simply a matter of doing a simple "either/or" frame size check before doing the rendering, i.e. EITHER 1280x720 OR 720x1280? If it's that simple, it would be a simple fix to implement.
Mid way through this brief clip, I rotated the camera 90 deg. to get the full view on the scene. I can edit the clip to rotate the portion so

Xtremevideo 3 years ago

I shoot diferent types of female models having a player
setup rotated 90 degrees would be very useful .Some computer screens are coming out with option already like my HP w2408h

Chris Eldridge Plus 3 years ago

Alan- I agree, that is the only industry-world experience I've had with using the vertical format (to get the maximum resolution out of the frame for keying purposes) but I know that there are other times when that option would be handy!

RDJim Plus 3 years ago

I was thinking the same thing. The only people who rotate their video camaras were either noobs or people sneaking a few more pixels in for keying later on. I never thought about the possibilities for creating vertical banners or female models, etc. Time to get my head out of the past and think about the way people are viewing most video these days... websites. Aspect ratios are all part of the artistic expression.