NB: [video clip starts] Well, I like the back of it. Again, because for me the backs of things have got this element of subconscious action, haven't they? Whereas I think that's a bit too ... I don' t know ... there's a system there, it's a formulaic system. I' ve seen it in so many other pots that she' s produced, maybe it's difficult to distinguish time periods. But I' m drawn to inner spaces as well. It's too obvious, too blatant for me as an object, just to sit down there. That's got more of an honesty to it, the back of the piece. [video clip ends] Maybe you should think of displaying it that way, I don't know.

MP: There is an exhibition of paintings, I think it might be on at the moment in Germany, but I'm not sure, called 'Intervention', but they've displayed the whole gallery with the paintings back to front, so you can just see the back of the pictures.

NB: Again, purely from the way I'd approach something, it's too systematic, there seems to be that formula in place and then it just seems to carry on to the next piece and the next piece, and part of what I'm attracted to as a maker is that interest in breaking the rules. As soon as you've kind of mastered something, to kind of shift onto something else, to move on and not to regurgitate what you've done. And I know the bodies of work, but I don't know, just no, sorry, [it] doesn't really ...

MP: I suppose if I was being a devil's advocate again you might say that [for] somebody like Liz Fritsch, her work moves forward, but incrementally in very small steps, but she might see them as quite important, major steps. Whereas your work might be recognisable, say the figurative style of work like the 'She wants your Junk' piece, and there might be a series of pieces from that period that you recognise as by Neil Brownsword. Then you make a conscious stop and you're moving towards a different period of work. But in that period you might make similar pieces. And I suppose in a similar way, although you might not see huge difference in her work she's incrementally moving forward. But her approach is just much more minimal.

NB: Yes. I think maybe some of the latter pieces, somewhere in the Jerwood where she' s totally stripped back to just being objects, they strike more of a chord with me really. And there [are] some optical pots where again I think the visual imbalance with the form, it works very well. But this in particular, for me it doesn't really stir anything, it doesn't arouse anything.

MP: OK.

NB: OK. It's cold, sorry. It does leave me cold.

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