The ideas that I am developing on it though are that there are probably optimal scales of cities, but I don't think it's one size only. And if you look at something like New York City, it's a very large city and very complex. I don't know what the population is, I've lost track of what it is, it's over ten million. But New York is a very different city than Mumbai or Tokyo or Shanghai or Los Angeles even.
And so each of those cities is in a different geography, and I do believe that the answer to that question of scale will depend on whether you're a city of the seashore or a city of the mountains or a city of the plains. And this is what I think we have got to come to grips with from the sustainability perspective, because if we go back to those 19 subsystems that I identified, the solutions for those have to be adapted differently depending on where the city is. But ultimately, they have to support the people in them.
Also I think we're seeing now at this time in history that there is a huge spectrum of development in cities. I would say New York might be the most advanced city there is on Earth, just because of its history. And there are other cities, many in Africa at this point, many in that developing world, that have small cores that are working with fairly adequate intelligence, but their huge sprawl, what I would call the heaps, is not working. Except that, I imagine, and when I go there I'm always looking for it, in those edges, in those sprawls, new intelligence is emerging. And we usually are ignoring it, because those people aren't being measured in the matrix that we use in the developed world.
But I think that we will come to the conclusion that things like population control will become, not by government edict, as it has been in China, and not only by personal decision as it is in most of the developed world, but somewhere in between we will have a bit of 'both and'. Because I think that we will come to see that it doesn't make any sense to overpopulate some areas, because you just decimate all the resources, you can never then do what the bees have done. There has to be a relationship between the cities' capacity to sustain itself and the ecoregion, and I think they work together. So that's the marriage I'm looking for. I think we have many, many generations to go before we even get close to what the bees have done.