Diogo Louro

Diogo Louro

Hello there.

I've set my 600D to NTSC mode since I can get 60fps at 720p, therefore having much more "space" to slow down video. I also aim for the final video to be at 24fps, both for slow-motion latitude and the overall look of the video.

Now, what confuses me is how should the workflow be set. Should I open up a sequence in premiere with a 60fps timebase, and then export at 24fps, or should my sequence be at 24fps (or 23.98) from the beginning, since that's the "look" and frame-rate I'm looking for?
Things get even more confusing when after effects factors in. Most of the times, my project goes through after effects for color correction/grading, through dynamic link. If the correct way to do it is to set the sequence (in premiere) at 60fps to begin with, should the AE sequence also be set at that framerate, and then export at 24?

4Moorhens2

4Moorhens2

If you have a planned project do you have an approximate idea of the proportion of slo mo scenes vs normal speed scenes? If the 24p project is primarily slo mo then 60p will be ideal but if the project is mainly at normal speed then 60p changed to 24p may not be ideal nor might the required "look" be achieved.

60p changed to 30p, hence a 30p project, would be fine though since you would be only dropping every other frame. The 60p scenes that you wish to slow down will definitely look good at half speed since you wont be dropping any frames just doubling the clips' duration. 60p slowed to quarter speed or slower is certainly possible but then a host of other factors come into play: e.g. the camera shutter speed used, the nature of the camera, subject and background movements, the software and settings that are used to interpolate additional intermediate frames etc. etc.

However 60p slowed to 24p would give you 40% speed without dropping or adding frames and that would look great if that is the main content of the project.

Diogo Louro

Diogo Louro

You missed my question.

There are two points on an editing workflow with premiere, where you are able to set frames per second:
1 - At the start of the project, where you are asked for the timebase of the sequence you are about to start working on.
2 - At exporting, where you can set how many fps the exported video has.

(forget AE for now)

I have 60p files, but it's only for in case I want to slow it down, because I always want the final piece to be at 24p
The question is how should I set my project: 60fps timebase on sequence creation, and then set to 24fps on export, or set it to 24 from the start? Is there a difference?

Oskar Svensson

Oskar Svensson

I discourage you to go 60p>24p, it will never look good, thers simply no way to do it without having to compromise. It will look better at 30fps.

Anyway use a 24fps project and export as 24fps, for the slowmo clip use modify>interpret footage>assume framerate 23,976 for slowest smooth playback.

edit. Tried that method and yeah it looks like shit, its very choppy. You can try it for yourself and see, if you dont like it try something with frame blend.

4Moorhens2

4Moorhens2

Diogo,

If you want your video to play at 24fps and you are shooting at 60p just in case you want to slow it down that certainly suggests that the majority of project will be at normal speed. Personally I would shoot at 24fps if that was the "look" that I wanted and for those scenes where slo mo is required shoot at 60p if possible and/or practical.

However if you want to make a video from the 60p footage that you have previously shot then, as Oskar suggests, a 30p project and 30p export would play much better simply because the 24p "look" may not be possible when working from 60p footage.

Diogo Louro

Diogo Louro

Many, many thanks.

And I might also stop using the 60p recording by default, considering memory space too.

Best regards!

4Moorhens2

4Moorhens2

Best of luck :)

BTW. I have created slo mo effects from 24p footage but for a satisfactory result the relative movements of camera, subject and background together with shutter speed, the nature of the subject and background etc. are critical - a plain background rather than a textured background is usually best if the subject is slowly moving across it or if the camera is slowly tracking (e.g. panning) the moving subject. 60p is best for fast moving subjects though and even then some motion blur, created by using a relatively slow shutter, can create a better image (less blocky interpolated intermediate frames) if 25% speed or slower (or 20% speed or slower if the project is 24p) is required.

Diogo Louro

Diogo Louro

I've done experiments with twixtor, and yes, background matters.
Some mixed results, but it worked for the most part:

First, where something went wrong in compression during exchanges between AE and premiere
vimeo.com/29761216

And second: vimeo.com/41441725

4Moorhens2

4Moorhens2

vimeo.com/29761216 was shot at 720 50p (?) and the work that you did with twixtor looks very good :)

Regarding resolving issues with AE and premiere then conforming project and export frame rates is probably the key...

Diogo Louro

Diogo Louro

I can't remember if I had changed PAL to NTSC by that time, but yes, either 50 or 60p.

Many thanks for your answers!

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