Aaron Gifford

Aaron Gifford

Hi, I'm pretty new to the community, I was hoping to get some information about what bit rate people have been choosing for their exports to maximize their video quality. The bulk of my videos will be scuba diving footage and I would like to try and maintain the highest detail possible for the images.

Premiere has a Vimeo HD setting and I have seen posts on the site like here (vimeo.com/videoschool/lesson/30/video-101-exporting-to-share-on-vimeo-with-windows-live-movie-maker) suggesting using 5Mbps as a bitrate. However, since the video is compressed a second time by Vimeo after uploading I am wondering if it would not be best to use a higher bit rate for the initial upload to try and maintain quality. I did a test where I uploaded the same clip twice, once exported at the Vimeo recommended setting of 5 Mbsec (vimeo.com/19037473) and the other exported at 12 Mbsec (vimeo.com/19023350). The higher bitrate video had noticeably better clarity and detail. It is especially apparent when viewing the first frame from each video. You can test this by opening each video in a different browser tab and quickly starting and stopping it so it is paused on the first frame. Then tab back and forth between the clips you can see a much different level of detail in the waves.

I am hoping to get some feedback from the community or Vimeo on the best settings to use. In my mind the ideal situation would be for Vimeo to release a list of settings that exactly match the videos used on the site. That way if we conformed to those settings we could export from our high quality originals to a video that would not require re-encoding. Barring that I am wondering if it would be best to upload videos at the highest bitrate that will fit in the allowed file size, to try and limit the detail loss from double encoding. I would love to hear if anyone else had experience with this and their suggestions for the best output.

Alwin Kruijt

Alwin Kruijt

Hi Aaron,
It's your choice what works best.
First of all, can you see the difference? While playing (streaming in the browser that is) I can't spot any differences.
I expect Vimeo to rewrite the uploaded film to their specs (720p 5mbps) to make it universal 'streamable'. It's different for the 'Download this Video' button down below your movie, that's the exact file you uploaded.

Oskar Svensson

Oskar Svensson

There is no best bitrate since all video sources will compress differently, i`ve compressed stuff in 720p that looks as good in 3Mbps as in 10Mbps. target bitrate vbr is not a good encoding method if you dont whant a specific size. I have no ide why adobe and other nle doesnt have a const quantizer or const quality options.

The only true way to know what bitrate to use to maximize quality and not to oversize is to do a compression test.

Anyway I would say that for 720p 4-6Mbps is a pretty safe bitrate to use and for 1080p 8-10Mbps.

eV1Te

eV1Te

Since Vimeo compresses the material one more time after upload here, you will get better quality if you have a higher bit rate to start with. But it's difficult to estimate how much...

If Vimeo uses 5 Mbps I would use at least 10 Mbit/s for my initial file that I upload.

Aaron Gifford

Aaron Gifford

Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback. I made a comparison image to illustrate what I am talking about. This is a crop of the first frame of my video. The bottom frame is from the 12 Mbsec video source I uploaded. The middle frame is from the Vimeo stream after the 12 Mbsec file was encoded. The top image is from the Vimeo stream for a 5 Mbsec video (Vimeo recommended specs) I uploaded.

i.imgur.com/mTzXl.jpg

As you can see there is a decent detail drop off from the original image to the 12 Mbsec Vimeo encode, and a much larger drop off in detail for the 5 Mbsec encode. Both the middle and the top image are being played back at the same bitrate in Vimeo streams. That leads me to believe that in order to get the best quality I should be exporting max sized files and let Vimeo encode from that. Just seems inefficient, Id rather just save the bandwidth and give Vimeo something they don't have to re-encode.

On the other hand. I take a look at the video posted by Howard Hall here: vimeo.com/15907252. It is only 368 MB and the image quality is absolutely stunning. I know he is working with a much better camera, but it makes me wonder if there are some export settings I could be doing that would get me better quality, without massively pumping up my file sizes.

Aaron Gifford

Aaron Gifford

Well I answered my own question regarding the Howard Hall video. I downloaded the original source file. It was variable bit rate, dropping down to 9 Mbsec in the simple scenes and spiking to over 26 Mbsec in the complex scenes. So I guess I will need to do some experimenting in Premiere. Hopefully I can find some wide range VBR settings that allow me to get maximum quality in complex scenes with a bit smaller file size that a full high bitrate encode. Still interested in hearing other people's experiences and settings.

Oskar Svensson

Oskar Svensson

The problem is not the bitrate (bitrate dont realy tell you what quality you get but what size) it is the Vimeo HD preset that sucks. Both main profile and lvl 3.1 is not recommended for hd, there is alot of restriction using it max video bitrate for peaks is 14,000kbit/s etc. And VBR in 1pass is not efficient at low bitrates. Running avg bitrate at 12 and max 14 does not sound like a good way to use vbr to me.

For h264 set it at Profile high lvl 4.1 and vbr 2pass @ (see my first post for bitrate). You can set max at 40Mbps or what ever (It will not peak this high but if you would like to have a the option of making a bluray the max video data is 40)

Btw. Were did the expansion of the Compression Guidelines thread go? would be nice to expand it so we dont need these settings threads anymore :)

jay bharat

jay bharat

How to find bitrate of any video through api response,I want this because apple 3g not supporting morethen 64 bitrate.

JD Borgeson

JD Borgeson

bit rates are all about space in my opinion. higher bitrates yield higher quality videos, but the quality difference btw a bitrate of 10 and 50 is extremely hard to tell on a computer screen. basically you adjust your bitrate according to the space you have. vimeo allows 500mb per video if you arent a plus member, so my suggestion would be to use the highest possible bitrate that yields a video under 500 mb. i dont know what you use, but when encoding with adobe premiere, you can see the file size change as you change the bitrate. there is my two cents

4Moorhens2

4Moorhens2

IMO the nature of the subject matter is critical when it comes to the amount of compression that one can use with any given codec: a static subject filmed from a fixed camera position may look fine at 1280x720 2Mbps CBR but a moving subject shot from a dynamic position will probably require at least 5Mbps VBR peaking at 8Mbps or more when using H.264 compression and good quality software.

Considering bit rates to be just a matter of space is really a gross simplification.

Beachwood Productions

Beachwood Productions PRO

I have not been happy at all at poor quality of my HD films after uploading to Vimeo. I wish they had a higher quality setting. It does not seem I'm getting $199. worth. 😞

Nurali Kushkov

Nurali Kushkov Plus

count me in, didnt find good settings yet..
just uploaded 2min project, H264 25mb/s looks ok in general but some shots, specially dark ones-good lord so pixelated!

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